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  #451  
Old 03-13-2018, 08:24 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Hopefully the anti-Hawk crowd doesn't jump down your throat for mentioning players from another era that "nobody remembers or can relate to".
Yea I started thinking about that right after I posted. Im just one of those people that cant forget the past.
  #452  
Old 03-13-2018, 08:46 PM
Hunker down Hunker down is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Dylan Cease is really showing me something this spring. I know we won't see him for some time, but I'm excited about the prospect of two former Cubs products shining on the South Side for years to come.

Wild prediction: Cease and Jimenez are the heroes of Game 7 of the 2021 World Series against the Cubs.
What makes you think the Cubs would even win 3 games to get it to a game 7?
  #453  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:05 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck
Tell me was a Paul Blair and Ken Berry considered "glove only players"? Thats the type of player that I consider is overlooked these days.
Both players played before I was born, so if you’re not a fan of the new mathematical models being used to answer these types of questions, then my answer probably won’t be of much value to you. Based on their stats, a quick answer would be “yes” for Ken Berry and “no” for Paul Blair. About half of Blair’s seasons were above league-average offensively. On the other hand, Ken Berry’s bat was below league-average for the vast majority of his career.

Even in seasons when the offensive production by both players was lacking, we still need to be conscious of context. Lower league-wide slugging percentages, more spacious outfields to patrol, and 10-man pitching staffs in the ‘60s and ‘70s endured that both players stayed above replacement value even in the seasons when they didn’t hit much.
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  #454  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:18 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Both players played before I was born, so if you’re not a fan of the new mathematical models being used to answer these types of questions, then my answer probably won’t be of much value to you. Based on their stats, a quick answer would be “yes” for Ken Berry and “no” for Paul Blair. About half of Blair’s seasons were above league-average offensively. On the other hand, Ken Berry’s bat was below league-average for the vast majority of his career.

Even in seasons when the offensive production by both players was lacking, we still need to be conscious of context. Lower league-wide slugging percentages, more spacious outfields to patrol, and 10-man pitching staffs in the ‘60s and ‘70s endured that both players stayed above replacement value even in the seasons when they didn’t hit much.

What type of offensive numbers would Engel have to have to be a starting centerfielder now a days?
  #455  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:21 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Tell me was a Paul Blair and Ken Berry considered "glove only players"? Thats the type of player that I consider is overlooked these days.
Too bad Engel makes them look like Mantle and Maris. They may have been "glove only" but they at least had to hit their weight. Bulimia is probably Engel's best hope for that.
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  #456  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:24 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Bulimia is probably Engel's best hope for that.
That cracked me up.
  #457  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:37 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Yea I started thinking about that right after I posted. Im just one of those people that cant forget the past.
Nor should you.
  #458  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:38 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Both players played before I was born, so if you’re not a fan of the new mathematical models being used to answer these types of questions, then my answer probably won’t be of much value to you. Based on their stats, a quick answer would be “yes” for Ken Berry and “no” for Paul Blair. About half of Blair’s seasons were above league-average offensively. On the other hand, Ken Berry’s bat was below league-average for the vast majority of his career.

Even in seasons when the offensive production by both players was lacking, we still need to be conscious of context. Lower league-wide slugging percentages, more spacious outfields to patrol, and 10-man pitching staffs in the ‘60s and ‘70s endured that both players stayed above replacement value even in the seasons when they didn’t hit much.
And don't forget both were Gold Glove winning outfielders.
  #459  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:58 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck
What type of offensive numbers would Engel have to have to be a starting centerfielder now a days?
It’s tough to say. Some of Engel’s value (or lack thereof) would depend on the other players in the lineup. It would also depend on just how much offense we are willing to sacrifice for improved defense.

The league split for the position was .264/.333/.431, so Engel first would have to improve his batting average by about 100 points. To accomplish this, he would have to reduce the amount of times he strikes out pretty dramatically (by at least 30-35%), and that number assumes that all those reduced strikeouts are converted to walks or hits.

Do I think Engel is really a .166 hitter? No.

Do I think he will ever reach those league-average levels of offense? Also no.

Do I think he can split the difference and end up a passable #9 hitter with an excellent glove and dynamic speed on the basepaths? Right now, I would lean towards a “no,” but it would be really nice to play Engel in center, Robert in a corner, someone like Rutherford the other corner, and DH Jimenez. Nothing’s dropping in that outfield.
  #460  
Old 03-14-2018, 12:03 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1
And don't forget both were Gold Glove winning outfielders.
The defense aspect is already baked into the pie when it comes to both players being considered above replacement level, especially in Berry’s case. Berry probably would have finished with a WAR closer to zero instead of the 13 WAR he did achieve.
  #461  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:01 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Hopefully the anti-Hawk crowd doesn't jump down your throat for mentioning players from another era that "nobody remembers or can relate to".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Yea I started thinking about that right after I posted. Im just one of those people that cant forget the past.
It's not about the anti-Hawk crowd or the forgetting of the past. It's the disregard of history: the history of this franchise or of the game by those that live in their moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
but it would be really nice to play Engel in center, Robert in a corner, someone like Rutherford the other corner, and DH Jimenez. Nothing’s dropping in that outfield.
That's exactly the outfield I'd love to see.
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 03-14-2018 at 05:06 AM.
  #462  
Old 03-14-2018, 06:17 AM
asindc asindc is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Tell me was a Paul Blair and Ken Berry considered "glove only players"? Thats the type of player that I consider is overlooked these days.
I have never thought of Paul Blair as a “glove-only” player.
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  #463  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:41 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
It's the disregard of history: the history of this franchise or of the game by those that live in their moment..
Those that choose to look to the future are not necessarily choosing to "disregard history". Many of them are choosing to not "cling to the past" for antiquated ideals and negativity which is often a sign of being addicted to unhappiness.
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  #464  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:49 AM
jcw218 jcw218 is online now
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White sox made more roster moves on Tuesday:

3/13/18 Chicago White Sox optioned LHP Ian Clarkin to Birmingham Barons.
3/13/18 Chicago White Sox optioned RF Eloy Jimenez to Birmingham Barons.
3/13/18 Chicago White Sox optioned SS Jose Rondon to Charlotte Knights.
3/13/18 Chicago White Sox optioned LF Daniel Palka to Charlotte Knights.
3/13/18 Chicago White Sox optioned CF Luis Alexander Basabe to Winston-Salem Dash.
3/13/18 Chicago White Sox optioned RF Micker Adolfo to Winston-Salem Dash.
  #465  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:35 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Kopech getting a really late run. Surprising.
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