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  #496  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:03 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
This may be slightly OT, but given the performance of the pitchers and OFs in the system, I begin to wonder what the team will be targeting in FA in 2018-19 offseasons.

SPs: You have Rodon, Kopech, Hansen who profile as top end/ace caliber guys, then you have Giolito/Lopez/Dunning/Cease and then Adams/Stephens/Clarkin/Puckett. If you get 2 out of the first group that meet their potential (Rodon plus one of Kopech/Hansen), 2 from the second group (Giolito/Lopez already looking good), then you'll need at most one more or you can hit FA for a pitcher (or trade for a vet upper end guy).

OFs: Avi looks like he's fully turned the corner. Obviously there's Eloy who looks as can't-miss as there practically can be. That leaves Robert/Rutherford/Adolfo and one slot with Basabe in the wings, so there's a fair amount of depth.

IF/C seems to be the weakest/shallowest spot. Anderson and Moncada have shown flashes but there's not much behind them (Yrizzari potentially) if they can't turn those into consistency. 3B similarly - unless you believe in Davidson, there's Burger and that's it. C there's depth in Collins/Skoug/Zavala but they're nowhere near as set as at OF or SP. But my recollection is that there's not really depth there in FA - the main available top-end guys are OF or 3B.

I guess you can trade from surplus to someone else for an IF but man it certainly is hard to recall another team with as much top end talent at SP and OF in the minors.
Bullpen.
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  #497  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:27 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
This may be slightly OT, but given the performance of the pitchers and OFs in the system, I begin to wonder what the team will be targeting in FA in 2018-19 offseasons.

SPs: You have Rodon, Kopech, Hansen who profile as top end/ace caliber guys, then you have Giolito/Lopez/Dunning/Cease and then Adams/Stephens/Clarkin/Puckett. If you get 2 out of the first group that meet their potential (Rodon plus one of Kopech/Hansen), 2 from the second group (Giolito/Lopez already looking good), then you'll need at most one more or you can hit FA for a pitcher (or trade for a vet upper end guy).

OFs: Avi looks like he's fully turned the corner. Obviously there's Eloy who looks as can't-miss as there practically can be. That leaves Robert/Rutherford/Adolfo and one slot with Basabe in the wings, so there's a fair amount of depth.

IF/C seems to be the weakest/shallowest spot. Anderson and Moncada have shown flashes but there's not much behind them (Yrizzari potentially) if they can't turn those into consistency. 3B similarly - unless you believe in Davidson, there's Burger and that's it. C there's depth in Collins/Skoug/Zavala but they're nowhere near as set as at OF or SP. But my recollection is that there's not really depth there in FA - the main available top-end guys are OF or 3B.

I guess you can trade from surplus to someone else for an IF but man it certainly is hard to recall another team with as much top end talent at SP and OF in the minors.
I think SS is the weakest spot. Anderson can't play the way he did this season and keep the job. (Yes, I know there are some mitigating circumstances, but I'm just stating this as a fact.) Since a SS can always be shifted to another position, they should target a top-tier SS, either in next year's draft, by trade, or through FA.

3B: They can make do with Davidson/Delmonico until Burger is ready. If Burger fizzles out, we can hope Yurchak can improve defensively. There are other third basemen in the system (Michalczewski, Forbes, Nunez) that are better than our other shortstops.

2B: If Moncada gets hurt, they can plug the hole for a couple of years (Sanchez/Hanson/Peter) but they have no top-end prospects in the system. But again, if they acquire a SS they will have options.

C: They seem pretty committed to giving Collins his shot, and Narvaez & Smith have established themselves as big league backups. Zavala and Skoug are good prospects too. Jhoandro Alfaro is well regarded but hasn't hit in Arizona. Given how hard it is to find catchers, I think they have more depth than they've had in decades.

OF: I'm in the "sell high" camp on Garcia. You forgot Tilson, Cordell, Polo, and others who are closer to the majors than Basabe and better performers, and a ton of guys in the low minors from whom a second wave will emerge.
  #498  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:47 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
This may be slightly OT, but given the performance of the pitchers and OFs in the system, I begin to wonder what the team will be targeting in FA in 2018-19 offseasons.

SPs: You have Rodon, Kopech, Hansen who profile as top end/ace caliber guys, then you have Giolito/Lopez/Dunning/Cease and then Adams/Stephens/Clarkin/Puckett. If you get 2 out of the first group that meet their potential (Rodon plus one of Kopech/Hansen), 2 from the second group (Giolito/Lopez already looking good), then you'll need at most one more or you can hit FA for a pitcher (or trade for a vet upper end guy).

OFs: Avi looks like he's fully turned the corner. Obviously there's Eloy who looks as can't-miss as there practically can be. That leaves Robert/Rutherford/Adolfo and one slot with Basabe in the wings, so there's a fair amount of depth.

IF/C seems to be the weakest/shallowest spot. Anderson and Moncada have shown flashes but there's not much behind them (Yrizzari potentially) if they can't turn those into consistency. 3B similarly - unless you believe in Davidson, there's Burger and that's it. C there's depth in Collins/Skoug/Zavala but they're nowhere near as set as at OF or SP. But my recollection is that there's not really depth there in FA - the main available top-end guys are OF or 3B.

I guess you can trade from surplus to someone else for an IF but man it certainly is hard to recall another team with as much top end talent at SP and OF in the minors.
I agree with DumpJerry, bullpen is where they will need to sign a couple veterans. There is depth pretty much everywhere else.

Middle infield is the one area of weakness in the system given that it was the one area of relative strength going into the rebuild. It won't surprise me at all if the Sox draft one of the two highly touted SS prospects with their #1 this year. Every other position has multiple options if one of the top guys doesn't pan out.

Added note: Though Yrizarri may end up being a steal and able to provide some depth at SS.
  #499  
Old 09-04-2017, 04:19 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
22 batters in a 7 innings game. Gave up that hit in the third and nothing else. Otherwise, perfection.

I don't think Dunning reaches to the level of a top pitching prospect in the game like Kopech does and Hansen certainly could but I'll happily take him as the next guy in line along with Lopez and Giolito.
The sad part, or great part depending on your outlook, is that Dunning is probably a pretty hyped prospect in most other farm systems. He has 2/3 potential, but will probably pitch at a 4/5 for us if all things come out like they are projecting to. This, of course, will speak to the depth of our rotation. The fact is that we have potential to have a monstrous rotation if these guys develop.

If Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, Hansen, Kopech, and Dunning develop then you are looking to possibly trade one of these pieces for hitting tools later on. We have depth, and that's such a great thing to have.


I am going to add

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp...ching/2017/ALL

Cease is really a "sleeper" here. Only because he is in our organization. Any other organization probably has him as a top 2 pitching prospect in their system. He has been handled carefully this year, but next year will see a complete release of the reigns. If his walk amounts improve, and if his k-rate doesn't drop, then we will have some serious issues fitting all of these guys into the same rotation.

Again, this is why you have a surplus so you could trade for need later.
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  #500  
Old 09-04-2017, 05:11 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
The sad part, or great part depending on your outlook, is that Dunning is probably a pretty hyped prospect in most other farm systems. He has 2/3 potential, but will probably pitch at a 4/5 for us if all things come out like they are projecting to. This, of course, will speak to the depth of our rotation. The fact is that we have potential to have a monstrous rotation if these guys develop.

If Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, Hansen, Kopech, and Dunning develop then you are looking to possibly trade one of these pieces for hitting tools later on. We have depth, and that's such a great thing to have.


I am going to add

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp...ching/2017/ALL

Cease is really a "sleeper" here. Only because he is in our organization. Any other organization probably has him as a top 2 pitching prospect in their system. He has been handled carefully this year, but next year will see a complete release of the reigns. If his walk amounts improve, and if his k-rate doesn't drop, then we will have some serious issues fitting all of these guys into the same rotation.

Again, this is why you have a surplus so you could trade for need later.
I've said this before but Cease looks like closer material to me. Which would be perfect for the Sox. If the rest of rotation comes together as it appears to be doing then the Sox could make that decision and move Cease through the system pretty quickly as a result. Add Burdi and you have a great start on a shutdown bullpen.
  #501  
Old 09-04-2017, 05:27 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
I've said this before but Cease looks like closer material to me. Which would be perfect for the Sox. If the rest of rotation comes together as it appears to be doing then the Sox could make that decision and move Cease through the system pretty quickly as a result. Add Burdi and you have a great start on a shutdown bullpen.
The idea of grooming him for a closer's role when we spent so much time grooming Fulmer for a starting pitcher's role seems like an odd one to me. I think we should see how he develops. If he is hurling in A+/ AA, then there should be no reason to expect a change to bullpen duties.
  #502  
Old 09-04-2017, 06:33 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
The idea of grooming him for a closer's role when we spent so much time grooming Fulmer for a starting pitcher's role seems like an odd one to me. I think we should see how he develops. If he is hurling in A+/ AA, then there should be no reason to expect a change to bullpen duties.
I just think that as essentially a two pitch pitcher that it is a better role for him unless he develops his changeup or another pitch. Fastball/curve can be devastating as a closer but not enough as a starter no matter how good they are.
  #503  
Old 09-04-2017, 07:06 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Bullpen.
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Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
I agree with DumpJerry, bullpen is where they will need to sign a couple veterans. There is depth pretty much everywhere else.
Zack Burdi is a good hopeful for our future bullpen once he gets back from Tommy John surgery. Also, some of the prospects currently being pegged as future starters might end up not panning out as a major league starter, but could become very good bullpen material.

At any rate, I agree about the need to shore up the bullpen. When this team becomes good again in a couple of years, I don't want them to fall short despite a great starting lineup and great pitching rotation because of a weak bullpen.
  #504  
Old 09-05-2017, 09:27 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Tyler Danish has dislocated his shoulder in a car crash. It sounds like he's lucky it wasn't much, much worse!

Also, Dylan Cease will miss the playoffs for Kannapolis due to shoulder fatigue.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...905-story.html
  #505  
Old 09-05-2017, 10:54 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Tyler Danish has dislocated his shoulder in a car crash. It sounds like he's lucky it wasn't much, much worse!

Also, Dylan Cease will miss the playoffs for Kannapolis due to shoulder fatigue.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...905-story.html
And the injuries go on and on...
  #506  
Old 09-05-2017, 11:47 PM
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I can excuse the shoulder fatigue for Cease, as he went from 44 innings in 2016 to 162 this year. It is a shame about Danish, I was hoping he could come up and try to bring something for the bullpen.
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  #507  
Old 09-06-2017, 08:12 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
And the injuries go on and on...
This is no big deal- a mediocre AAA pitcher hurt his left (non throwing) shoulder after the season ended with a projected 7-10 days to recover.

Cease is in a long term recovery from an injury, threw 2X the innings he threw last season and is scheduled to got to Arizona to get instructional league work in the fall....no reason to risk the health of a top prospect for the glory of an SAL championship.
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  #508  
Old 09-06-2017, 08:52 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
This may be slightly OT, but given the performance of the pitchers and OFs in the system, I begin to wonder what the team will be targeting in FA in 2018-19 offseasons.

SPs: You have Rodon, Kopech, Hansen who profile as top end/ace caliber guys, then you have Giolito/Lopez/Dunning/Cease and then Adams/Stephens/Clarkin/Puckett. If you get 2 out of the first group that meet their potential (Rodon plus one of Kopech/Hansen), 2 from the second group (Giolito/Lopez already looking good), then you'll need at most one more or you can hit FA for a pitcher (or trade for a vet upper end guy).

OFs: Avi looks like he's fully turned the corner. Obviously there's Eloy who looks as can't-miss as there practically can be. That leaves Robert/Rutherford/Adolfo and one slot with Basabe in the wings, so there's a fair amount of depth.

IF/C seems to be the weakest/shallowest spot. Anderson and Moncada have shown flashes but there's not much behind them (Yrizzari potentially) if they can't turn those into consistency. 3B similarly - unless you believe in Davidson, there's Burger and that's it. C there's depth in Collins/Skoug/Zavala but they're nowhere near as set as at OF or SP. But my recollection is that there's not really depth there in FA - the main available top-end guys are OF or 3B.

I guess you can trade from surplus to someone else for an IF but man it certainly is hard to recall another team with as much top end talent at SP and OF in the minors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I think SS is the weakest spot. Anderson can't play the way he did this season and keep the job. (Yes, I know there are some mitigating circumstances, but I'm just stating this as a fact.) Since a SS can always be shifted to another position, they should target a top-tier SS, either in next year's draft, by trade, or through FA.

3B: They can make do with Davidson/Delmonico until Burger is ready. If Burger fizzles out, we can hope Yurchak can improve defensively. There are other third basemen in the system (Michalczewski, Forbes, Nunez) that are better than our other shortstops.

2B: If Moncada gets hurt, they can plug the hole for a couple of years (Sanchez/Hanson/Peter) but they have no top-end prospects in the system. But again, if they acquire a SS they will have options.

C: They seem pretty committed to giving Collins his shot, and Narvaez & Smith have established themselves as big league backups. Zavala and Skoug are good prospects too. Jhoandro Alfaro is well regarded but hasn't hit in Arizona. Given how hard it is to find catchers, I think they have more depth than they've had in decades.

OF: I'm in the "sell high" camp on Garcia. You forgot Tilson, Cordell, Polo, and others who are closer to the majors than Basabe and better performers, and a ton of guys in the low minors from whom a second wave will emerge.
I agree about the middle infield. I think people are really jumping the gun by penciling in Burger as our starting 3B of the future. He's got a long ways to go before we can do that since he's still in low A ball.

Jimenez and Kopech? Yeah, they look like the real deal. But, it's far from certain that Jake Burger will be able to hit successfully in the majors (or even stick at 3B). Of all the guys we're penciling in for 2019/20, he and Rutherford are the ones I'm least convinced about.
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  #509  
Old 09-06-2017, 08:57 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22 View Post
I can excuse the shoulder fatigue for Cease, as he went from 44 innings in 2016 to 162 this year. It is a shame about Danish, I was hoping he could come up and try to bring something for the bullpen.
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
This is no big deal- a mediocre AAA pitcher hurt his left (non throwing) shoulder after the season ended with a projected 7-10 days to recover.

Cease is in a long term recovery from an injury, threw 2X the innings he threw last season and is scheduled to got to Arizona to get instructional league work in the fall....no reason to risk the health of a top prospect for the glory of an SAL championship.
Agreed. Danish's season was over anyway and this is a nothing injury for him. Just be thankful he's still alive! That car wreck sounds like it could have been really bad.

Cease was probably already on an innings limit anyway. I expect that they're simply being cautious with him and that there is nothing to be concerned about.

But, i know, i know, it's unreal how the Sox have gotten a league average number of injuries this year.
  #510  
Old 09-06-2017, 10:36 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Tyler Danish has dislocated his shoulder in a car crash. It sounds like he's lucky it wasn't much, much worse!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
And the injuries go on and on...
Was Kenny driving the car? How else are you pinning this on the organization?
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