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  #91  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:44 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The org. adamantly refuses to make any changes toward the likely culprits.

For the record those culprits would be?
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  #92  
Old 09-19-2018, 06:24 AM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
For the record those culprits would be?
I don't know what Tragg has to say but one culprit who has to go is Cooper, he's outlived his usefulness.
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Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 09-19-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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  #93  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:13 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Tonight's game brings home the reality that the Indians are better than the Sox at every position except maybe 1B, and significantly so. Sox pitching, now and in the future, is largely rabbit's foot stuff (see putative ace Rodon tonight and his last several starts). The org. adamantly refuses to make any changes toward the likely culprits.
Well, no ****. Why would anyone think otherwise at this point in time? Let's compare the teams 2-3 years from now.
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  #94  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:31 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Well, no ****. Why would anyone think otherwise at this point in time? Let's compare the teams 2-3 years from now.
Exactly. “Dog bites Man,” and “Water is Wet.” Um, yeah, and...?
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  #95  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:56 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is online now
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Exactly. “Dog bites Man,” and “Water is Wet.” Um, yeah, and...?
Indeed! “Sun Rises In the East” also fits.

It’s preposterous to be outraged that a team in the bottoming out year of a complete rebuild while also rebuilding the entire organizational player development philosophy after a 16-year cycle of going for it every year, would have inferior position players compared to the three-time defending division champions.



For the record, I think these are all reasonable “skeptical” positions:

“I hate that we traded Chris Sale and I was against it at the time.”

“I’m disappointed in the progress of our young players like Moncada, and the many injuries to so many prospects.”

“I think Rick Hahn never should have been allowed to preside over this rebuild project and I’ll remain skeptical unless/until they actually prove me wrong by building a consistent winner.”


But “Sucking in 2018 and being completely outclassed by Cleveland is proof that the rebuild is doomed” is preposterous.
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  #96  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:43 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Well, no ****. Why would anyone think otherwise at this point in time? Let's compare the teams 2-3 years from now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Exactly. “Dog bites Man,” and “Water is Wet.” Um, yeah, and...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Indeed! “Sun Rises In the East” also fits.

It’s preposterous to be outraged that a team in the bottoming out year of a complete rebuild while also rebuilding the entire organizational player development philosophy after a 16-year cycle of going for it every year, would have inferior position players compared to the three-time defending division champions.



For the record, I think these are all reasonable “skeptical” positions:

“I hate that we traded Chris Sale and I was against it at the time.”

“I’m disappointed in the progress of our young players like Moncada, and the many injuries to so many prospects.”

“I think Rick Hahn never should have been allowed to preside over this rebuild project and I’ll remain skeptical unless/until they actually prove me wrong by building a consistent winner.”


But “Sucking in 2018 and being completely outclassed by Cleveland is proof that the rebuild is doomed” is preposterous.


Newsflash: A team that was one at bat away from winning the World Series 2 years ago is much better than a team in year 2 of a rebuild! Fire everyone!!!

...and Frater, you are spot on. Those opinions you listed are indeed reasonable ones for fans to have. No one has to believe the Sox will succeed in their plans and Sox management IMO has not earned the fans' benefit of the doubt. But comparing the 2018 White Sox to the 2018 Indians as any measure of the rebuilding effort's success is indeed preposterous.

I swear, since Kopech went down with his UCL tear, the doomsayers among Sox fans have been having a field day about the impending failure facing this team in the future.....as if that gut-punching event was a vindication of their position.

The way I see it, the Indians have several key players already on the wrong side of 30. When (I'll go out on a limb here and not expect the worst) the Sox are good again in a couple of years, many (I said many, not "all") of the Indians key players will be on the downward side of their careers or facing free agency by 2021.
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  #97  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:32 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Too many posts to quote my agreements with.

The Tribe is what everyone said they were in Spring Training: the 2018 AL Central champs. They are, however, one of the weaker division champs in MLB. Also, when 2020 rolls around, many of the current Tribe players will be in decline. To compare the 2018 White Sox to the 2018 Tribe is like comparing a bicycle to a Ferrari. Ridiculous.

Patience is a virtue, but apparently not a quality some White Sox fans possess.
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  #98  
Old 09-19-2018, 02:51 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Too many posts to quote my agreements with.

The Tribe is what everyone said they were in Spring Training: the 2018 AL Central champs. They are, however, one of the weaker division champs in MLB. Also, when 2020 rolls around, many of the current Tribe players will be in decline. To compare the 2018 White Sox to the 2018 Tribe is like comparing a bicycle to a Ferrari. Ridiculous.

Patience is a virtue, but apparently not a quality some White Sox fans possess.
I agree on us, but the core of the Tribe will be fine in 2020. Lindor will be 26, Ramirez will be 28, Clevinger and Bauer will be 29, and on the farm they've got as sure a bet as any in Tritson McKenzie to help fill the rotation as the Klubers and Carrascos go (if they do). You'll likely see him in their rotation to open next season. I think they will be fine, and when we're ready to compete it will be a dog fight.
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  #99  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:43 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I don't know what Tragg has to say but one culprit who has to go is Cooper, he's outlived his usefulness.

I am in total agreement with you about Don Cooper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I agree on us, but the core of the Tribe will be fine in 2020. Lindor will be 26, Ramirez will be 28, Clevinger and Bauer will be 29, and on the farm they've got as sure a bet as any in Tritson McKenzie to help fill the rotation as the Klubers and Carrascos go (if they do). You'll likely see him in their rotation to open next season. I think they will be fine, and when we're ready to compete it will be a dog fight.

Zimmer should be back and the Tribe have some hitters in the minors.

Last edited by Grzegorz; 09-19-2018 at 09:04 PM.
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  #100  
Old 09-20-2018, 12:30 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Tonight's game brings home the reality that the Indians are better than the Sox at every position except maybe 1B, and significantly so. Sox pitching, now and in the future, is largely rabbit's foot stuff (see putative ace Rodon tonight and his last several starts). The org. adamantly refuses to make any changes toward the likely culprits.
This post made me come back up from the rabbit hole. My last post stunk, not because I disagreed with kittle but because I took the bait and responded in the way I did. Sorry about that. Now back to the matter at hand. What a **** storm ensued from this post and IMHO it's a good post from a good poster. What does Cleveland have, the 5th best record in the AL and the Sox are so far behind them in the race for talent. It's not unfair to point that out. It doesn't mean the Sox should be neck and neck with Cleveland right now, just shows how far they have to go. As for his assessment of the pitching, exactly what I was thinking. I'm not as big on the so called peripherals as some but just watching Rodon made me think he was due for a correction and indeed that is happening. Going into this year I was concentrating on how Rodon, Fulmer, Lopez and Giolito did on the hill and position players Anderson and Moncada. Now you can't say the results have been bad across the board but you can say they have been disappointing. Then there is the bad luck factor down on the farm and with the promising Kopech. So yes you can look at the better teams in the AL, not just Cleveland, and realize what a tough climb the Sox face. Why get beaten from pillar to post for pointing this out?. To suggest a lack of patience I find amusing given this team's long and difficult history. Sox fans have the patience of Job and then some. The herd is really thinning out and I miss the input of several of the missing. Perhaps it's better I go back into my cyber rabbit hole.
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  #101  
Old 09-20-2018, 12:42 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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I'd rather end up with a good 5-7 year window of real contention for a title than rush things to try and "win early".

The Astros and Cubs needed 3 good drafts to maximize the rebuild, so far we have had maybe 1.5
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