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  #76  
Old 09-04-2019, 03:44 PM
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thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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To be completely fair to the White Sox, nobody in their organization argued we were going to be competitive this year or next. That sentiment has come exclusively from the fanbase, and isn't universal. I've maintained that 2021 is the year we break .500, and I see no reason to think it'll be sooner.
Here's where another issue lies, and I've maintained this all year. If we can't even get to .500 until the fifth (FIFTH!) year of the rebuild, what reason is there to watch this team? We continue losing young fans to the Cubs because they're likely headed to the playoffs for a fifth consecutive year and have multiple good-to-great players well-known around baseball. Meanwhile, we're reaching a point where no one younger than a teenager has even been alive for a Sox playoff team. At what point will this be a team that captures the city's imagination again? We've been waiting for too long. Meanwhile, everyone else continues to flaunt 2016.
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  #77  
Old 09-04-2019, 04:48 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Here's where another issue lies, and I've maintained this all year. If we can't even get to .500 until the fifth (FIFTH!) year of the rebuild, what reason is there to watch this team? We continue losing young fans to the Cubs because they're likely headed to the playoffs for a fifth consecutive year and have multiple good-to-great players well-known around baseball. Meanwhile, we're reaching a point where no one younger than a teenager has even been alive for a Sox playoff team. At what point will this be a team that captures the city's imagination again? We've been waiting for too long. Meanwhile, everyone else continues to flaunt 2016.
Your main issue here is that you actually care what the Cubs do. That **** all went out the window once the useless-ass Indians blew a 3-1 series lead.

All we had was the 2005 World Series. Now we don’t even have that. Any dreams of “taking over the town” from the yuppie team up north need to be laid to rest. Besides, they’re not even in competition with each other anymore. The only real animosity that exists between the two franchises is a figment of fans’ imaginations.
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  #78  
Old 09-04-2019, 04:52 PM
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Your main issue here is that you actually care what the Cubs do. That **** all went out the window once the useless-ass Indians blew a 3-1 series lead.

All we had was the 2005 World Series. Now we don’t even have that. Any dreams of “taking over the town” from the yuppie team up north need to be laid to rest. Besides, they’re not even in competition with each other anymore. The only real animosity that exists between the two franchises is a figment of fans’ imaginations.
So we just give up on ever being relevant in this town? I guess all the talk on this board about the team moving to another city isn't as unfounded as I thought.
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  #79  
Old 09-04-2019, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Here's where another issue lies, and I've maintained this all year. If we can't even get to .500 until the fifth (FIFTH!) year of the rebuild, what reason is there to watch this team? We continue losing young fans to the Cubs because they're likely headed to the playoffs for a fifth consecutive year and have multiple good-to-great players well-known around baseball. Meanwhile, we're reaching a point where no one younger than a teenager has even been alive for a Sox playoff team. At what point will this be a team that captures the city's imagination again? We've been waiting for too long. Meanwhile, everyone else continues to flaunt 2016.
Please.

Have you tried to buy a ticket to a Cub game? You have to make a choice: the mortgage payment this month or a Cubs' game. They have priced themselves out of being affordable to anyone with a five figure salary and two or more kids to drag to the park.

The Cubs' window is closing. They got killed last year in October and this year is shaping up to be even worse. Lester is on his last legs, they have no prospects coming up that even they are talking about, much less the national media. Bryant will be testing the market soon. There is a good chance he will change unis.

If I was an investor with a long term horizon, I would go with the Sox over the Cubs right now.
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  #80  
Old 09-04-2019, 05:52 PM
blandman blandman is online now
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Here's where another issue lies, and I've maintained this all year. If we can't even get to .500 until the fifth (FIFTH!) year of the rebuild, what reason is there to watch this team? We continue losing young fans to the Cubs because they're likely headed to the playoffs for a fifth consecutive year and have multiple good-to-great players well-known around baseball. Meanwhile, we're reaching a point where no one younger than a teenager has even been alive for a Sox playoff team. At what point will this be a team that captures the city's imagination again? We've been waiting for too long. Meanwhile, everyone else continues to flaunt 2016.
Nothing you are saying is incorrect.

This is why the (dead horse) Machado thing stung so bad. The potential to add another young and already elite piece long term to supplement the growing core would have made the team infinitely more watchable, moved up the contention timeline dramatically, created trade-able pieces of depth, and added a layer of protection in case any area falters (whether that be in lineup protection or in the aforementioned depth for trades). As it stands now, even with guys turning the corner and guys on the cusp, we're far from being competitive/watchable. Imagine being able to take your pick of Moncada, TA, and Madrigal and saying "let's go get an elite pitcher since our rotation is shambles because of injury". It would have made all the difference this year or next. Instead, we're looking at another year of rebuild.
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  #81  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:19 PM
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Please.

Have you tried to buy a ticket to a Cub game? You have to make a choice: the mortgage payment this month or a Cubs' game. They have priced themselves out of being affordable to anyone with a five figure salary and two or more kids to drag to the park.

The Cubs' window is closing. They got killed last year in October and this year is shaping up to be even worse. Lester is on his last legs, they have no prospects coming up that even they are talking about, much less the national media. Bryant will be testing the market soon. There is a good chance he will change unis.

If I was an investor with a long term horizon, I would go with the Sox over the Cubs right now.
But it's not soon now. It's now now, and the Cubs train very much keeps chugging along while the Sox train struggles to get up the hill.
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  #82  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Here's where another issue lies, and I've maintained this all year. If we can't even get to .500 until the fifth (FIFTH!) year of the rebuild, what reason is there to watch this team? We continue losing young fans to the Cubs because they're likely headed to the playoffs for a fifth consecutive year and have multiple good-to-great players well-known around baseball. Meanwhile, we're reaching a point where no one younger than a teenager has even been alive for a Sox playoff team. At what point will this be a team that captures the city's imagination again? We've been waiting for too long. Meanwhile, everyone else continues to flaunt 2016.
Not gonna base my self worth as a fan on what the Cubs do. You can if you want, but what those guys do means nothing to me.

To some extent the rebuild was set back most of a year when we lost Kopech, Rodon and Dunning to TJS. If that hadn't happened this team's future would seem a lot brighter right now. However with those guys likely to not make an impact until spring 2021 next year might well be less than most of us had hoped for. Depends if they go out and sign some players, but the offense should be pretty freaking solid from mid-April on.
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  #83  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:06 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Not gonna base my self worth as a fan on what the Cubs do. You can if you want, but what those guys do means nothing to me.

To some extent the rebuild was set back most of a year when we lost Kopech, Rodon and Dunning to TJS. If that hadn't happened this team's future would seem a lot brighter right now. However with those guys likely to not make an impact until spring 2021 next year might well be less than most of us had hoped for. Depends if they go out and sign some players, but the offense should be pretty freaking solid from mid-April on.
Kopech going down hurt the rebuild a lot, yes but I would not assume the lineup is going to be solid. Abreu will be a year older, one hopes Jimenez can figure something out like Moncada did but that’s no guarantee, Anderson might have turned a corner or he might be having the kind of season that Avi had in 2017, and if you’re counting on guys like Robert and Madrigal to make key contributions, well everyone thought Jimenez would do that this year and he’s been below average.
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  #84  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:07 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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I meant September. Who is he taking starts from at present that deserves them more?
Covey doesn't "deserve" anything -- he's used up all his chances, in my book -- but I'd certainly like to see how Bernardo Flores looks against major league hitters. MLB Pipeline has him ranked #28, and I think they underrate him because all of his pitches are 50 or better and his control is 55.
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  #85  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:55 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Covey doesn't "deserve" anything -- he's used up all his chances, in my book -- but I'd certainly like to see how Bernardo Flores looks against major league hitters. MLB Pipeline has him ranked #28, and I think they underrate him because all of his pitches are 50 or better and his control is 55.
I’m glad he is going to Arizona Fall League. For a guy who throws the ball over the plate as much as Flores, a hitters’ paradise like Arizona is a good test.
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  #86  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:44 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Kopech going down hurt the rebuild a lot, yes but I would not assume the lineup is going to be solid. Abreu will be a year older, one hopes Jimenez can figure something out like Moncada did but that’s no guarantee, Anderson might have turned a corner or he might be having the kind of season that Avi had in 2017, and if you’re counting on guys like Robert and Madrigal to make key contributions, well everyone thought Jimenez would do that this year and he’s been below average.
Sure, nothing is guaranteed and everyone might regress next year.....but I'll be very very surprised if Tim Anderson turns out to be Avi 2.0.

I think we Sox fans have endured mediocrity for so long that we can barely fathom the idea that Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, and maybe even Madrigal are likely (not guaranteed, but likely) to be fun to watch in our lineup next year. I'm looking forward to seeing if Collins' turnaround is for real, too.
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  #87  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Covey doesn't "deserve" anything -- he's used up all his chances, in my book -- but I'd certainly like to see how Bernardo Flores looks against major league hitters. MLB Pipeline has him ranked #28, and I think they underrate him because all of his pitches are 50 or better and his control is 55.
He spent two months on the IL and hasn't pitched above AA. That would be rushing him, IMO. Give the kid a chance to find his feet again. He can start next year at AA and if he's successful bump to AAA.
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  #88  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:53 PM
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Sure, nothing is guaranteed and everyone might regress next year.....but I'll be very very surprised if Tim Anderson turns out to be Avi 2.0.

I think we Sox fans have endured mediocrity for so long that we can barely fathom the idea that Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, and maybe even Madrigal are likely (not guaranteed, but likely) to be fun to watch in our lineup next year. I'm looking forward to seeing if Collins' turnaround is for real, too.
I agree. There's an expectation that any prospect the Sox have will ultimately fail. We're preconditioned to it.
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  #89  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:07 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Please.

Have you tried to buy a ticket to a Cub game? You have to make a choice: the mortgage payment this month or a Cubs' game. They have priced themselves out of being affordable to anyone with a five figure salary and two or more kids to drag to the park.

The Cubs' window is closing. They got killed last year in October and this year is shaping up to be even worse. Lester is on his last legs, they have no prospects coming up that even they are talking about, much less the national media. Bryant will be testing the market soon. There is a good chance he will change unis.

If I was an investor with a long term horizon, I would go with the Sox over the Cubs right now.
Excellent points.
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  #90  
Old 09-05-2019, 05:16 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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To some extent the rebuild was set back most of a year when we lost Kopech, Rodon and Dunning to TJS. If that hadn't happened this team's future would seem a lot brighter right now.
Agreed. And Jimmy Lambert, too. He might have figured into the 2020 rotation but now it will be 2021 at the earliest.

Very few organizations can overcome the loss of four top pitchers/pitching prospects to TJS in a period of approximately 6 months, and still be a winning team while those pitchers are still rehabbing.

I don’t know that the 2019 Sox would be contenders with a healthy Kopech and Rodon in the rotation along with Giolito, Lopez, and Cease (as I think more quality starts would end up requiring Renteria to overuse his good relievers, or to put the lousy relievers into save situations, and there remain problem with the lineup), but I think we’d be at or slightly above .500.
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