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  #151  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:48 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
What happened to Gordon Beckham has no bearing on what happens to Nick Madrigal. Players progress at rates that are independent of those behind and ahead of them.

That said, I do not want to see Madrigal in the majors until after the Super Two cutoff in 2020...
Depending on how Madrigal finishes and the other moves the team makes in the offseason, maybe the extra two months in 2020 would be worth the extra arb year.
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  #152  
Old 07-23-2019, 04:10 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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When Madrigal gets promoted it will only be because he's ready to play in the majors.

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They aren't going to panic and bring him up and potentially ruin his development in the process.

I still think he's ready now but I'm not the one making the decisions. Thank god.
If he's ready he's ready. To ruin his development on the parent club would mean nursing his appearances in the starting lineup.
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  #153  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:13 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Depending on how Madrigal finishes and the other moves the team makes in the offseason, maybe the extra two months in 2020 would be worth the extra arb year.
It's easy for me to say, but I think the Sox need to start being more selfish using the Super Two rules. I know it sucks for the player, but I'd rather these guys be around for the extra year. Either that or they need to take risks and get extra years via contracts like Eloy's.
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  #154  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:29 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
It's easy for me to say, but I think the Sox need to start being more selfish using the Super Two rules. I know it sucks for the player, but I'd rather these guys be around for the extra year. Either that or they need to take risks and get extra years via contracts like Eloy's.
From a contract standpoint doesn't seem like a lot of difference between a super two and a guy being brought up after the mid-April cutoff.

Eloy would have gotten and extra year of Arb eligibility in the 6 years of control they had for him if he'd been treated that way. Does the super 2 cutoff allow for a standard 3/3 arbitration setup instead of the 2/4 the guys called up earlier get?

if so it seems like just money so I'd be more inclined to bring guys up when they are ready.
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  #155  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:44 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
What happened to Gordon Beckham has no bearing on what happens to Nick Madrigal. Players progress at rates that are independent of those behind and ahead of them.

That said, I do not want to see Madrigal in the majors until after the Super Two cutoff in 2020...
Yeah, I've never understood this line of thought. You see it in the draft too. We shouldn't draft _____ because we tried the toolsy/athlete approach with Mitchell and it didn't work out.

With that said, I'm okay with whatever approach the Sox take with Madrigal. If they feel he's ready and that it's to their advantage to get him accustomed to MLB as early as possible, fine. If they want to keep him down to maximize their control, that's okay too.
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  #156  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:59 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Yeah, I've never understood this line of thought. You see it in the draft too. We shouldn't draft _____ because we tried the toolsy/athlete approach with Mitchell and it didn't work out.
Yes and that line of thought also extended to, we shouldn't draft _____ because we tried the high floor college pitcher approach with Broadway and McCullough and it didn't work out.
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  #157  
Old 07-23-2019, 01:19 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
It's easy for me to say, but I think the Sox need to start being more selfish using the Super Two rules. I know it sucks for the player, but I'd rather these guys be around for the extra year. Either that or they need to take risks and get extra years via contracts like Eloy's.
As long as they wait until mid-April, they donít lose a year. They replace the 2+ service year at the league minimum with a 2+ service year at a salary reached through arbitration. Instead of 4 years at league minimum and 3 years of arbitration, itís 3 years at league minimum and 4 years of arbitration.

Which may be worthwhile in Madrigalís case, because he doesnít look likely to put up the necessary power numbers to make his salary balloon too much in arbitration.
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  #158  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:10 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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After a slow start at AAA Charlotte, Nicky is now batting .302.
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  #159  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:31 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Still struggling mightily.
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  #160  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:47 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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And slugging a whopping .326 to go with that. Better start making those Cooperstown reservations!

Both points of view on that are equally goofy.
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  #161  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:01 PM
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And slugging a whopping .326 to go with that. Better start making those Cooperstown reservations!

Both points of view on that are equally goofy.
Well I don't see anyone saying he's lighting the world on fire. I only see people pointing out that he's not struggling as much as was stated a few nights ago. That's the middle ground that you're missing.

See it's not an either or situation. There's lots of shades of grey.

And in fairness he's 0/4 tonight with another K - his second in two nights which stands out because of his insanely low K rate at all levels. Tonight it was a swinging K. Last night he got rung up looking. He continues to have excellent contact rates and one of his outs was on a line drive tonight. He's progressing that's what's important.
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  #162  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:35 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Well I don't see anyone saying he's lighting the world on fire. I only see people pointing out that he's not struggling as much as was stated a few nights ago. That's the middle ground that you're missing.

See it's not an either or situation. There's lots of shades of grey.

And in fairness he's 0/4 tonight with another K - his second in two nights which stands out because of his insanely low K rate at all levels. Tonight it was a swinging K. Last night he got rung up looking. He continues to have excellent contact rates and one of his outs was on a line drive tonight. He's progressing that's what's important.
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  #163  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:45 AM
MeteorsSox4367 MeteorsSox4367 is offline
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If the Sox have to rely on Madrigal for power, they're in some trouble.

I watched him play on the PAC-12 Network in college at OSU and like what I see in him.

When Madrigal comes up, if he can make solid contact, hit gap-to-gap and play a strong defensive second base - and I expect him to do all three - I'll be a mighty happy Sox fan.
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  #164  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:15 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Well I don't see anyone saying he's lighting the world on fire. I only see people pointing out that he's not struggling as much as was stated a few nights ago. That's the middle ground that you're missing.

See it's not an either or situation. There's lots of shades of grey.

And in fairness he's 0/4 tonight with another K - his second in two nights which stands out because of his insanely low K rate at all levels. Tonight it was a swinging K. Last night he got rung up looking. He continues to have excellent contact rates and one of his outs was on a line drive tonight. He's progressing that's what's important.
Well said.

Saying he's not significantly struggling is not the same as saying his AAA numbers so far are terrific and what we should hope/expect from him long-term.

If anything, what we've seen is that he isn't flying through AAA like he did at AA. So, that puts the brakes on talk among fans about him possibly being ready to come up to the big leagues by May 2020.....and that's fine. I'd rather him spend his 5 weeks or so at AAA to finish the season getting adjusted to the higher level of competition than thinking he needs to try to crush HRs from the get-go lest he be written off as Leury 2.0. Does he ultimately need to display some XBH power to be a positive addition to a MLB lineup. Yes and I don't see anyone arguing otherwise.

What's encouraging is that his numbers so far, while hardly a finished product, shows that he's not totally lost at AAA. We're not talking about a hitter with a huge hole in his swing by any means. I'm confident that he has the hitting skills to make the necessary adjustments to ultimately success in the majors - including adding some power to his game.

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Originally Posted by MeteorsSox4367 View Post
If the Sox have to rely on Madrigal for power, they're in some trouble.

I watched him play on the PAC-12 Network in college at OSU and like what I see in him.

When Madrigal comes up, if he can make solid contact, hit gap-to-gap and play a strong defensive second base - and I expect him to do all three - I'll be a mighty happy Sox fan.
Yep. If Madrigal is in a lineup along with a bunch of Jon Jay-type players, then this team is in trouble. But, I have yet to hear anyone from Sox management even suggest that this is their future plan. What I expect is that he'll be there along side a bunch power hitters at the 8 other spots in the lineup and he'll perform as you describe.
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  #165  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:40 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by MeteorsSox4367 View Post
If the Sox have to rely on Madrigal for power, they're in some trouble.

I watched him play on the PAC-12 Network in college at OSU and like what I see in him.

When Madrigal comes up, if he can make solid contact, hit gap-to-gap and play a strong defensive second base - and I expect him to do all three - I'll be a mighty happy Sox fan.
Me too.
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