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  #16  
Old 05-20-2019, 06:58 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
"Iím a little guy," Vizquel said. "I like the squeeze plays. I think creating plays where you can manufacture runs can be really important. You pay attention to the little details. When you do that, you see the game from a different way sometimes.

"Now you talk about launch angle, and you see lead-off guys trying to hit home runs. Theyíre not taking pitches."
See, this disqualifies him in my book. A lineup of Vizquel-like hitters wins nothing. He needs to expand his thinking.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:07 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
See, this disqualifies him in my book. A lineup of Vizquel-like hitters wins nothing. He needs to expand his thinking.
Yeah, he can take that approach someplace else.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:42 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Zisk77 View Post
You guys do realize minor league manager's number one priority is not winning games, but getting prospects ready to play on the big club? Therefore they have them bunt, hit and run, hit behind the runner etc. because the big club wants their players to be able to do that...They really do not care if they win the game.
You're saying Vizquel was trying to develop non-prospects Nate Nolan and Mitch Roman to be effective major league hitters? And Luis Martinez (the pitcher) too?

It's one thing to teach players how to play small ball. It's quite another to excuse clown managing as "teaching".
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:44 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
The way Birmingham has sucked this year to get solid wood on the ball, I don't blame small ball with that bunch.
Perhaps the team's hitting philosophy is self-defeating.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:54 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
...

But I'm not basing this opinion on one bad inning, or even one bad game. These are Vizquel's tendencies, and they don't belong in modern baseball. His Barons have been really bad this year, both on the road and in their offense-suppressing home park.
Playing small ball in the "the modern game" (the game is so different than it was five years ago) might just open things up if you play it right. Minor league managers are concerned with development, and there is nothing wrong with developing small-ball capable players. With the current state of MLB defense, bunting more often might not be a bad idea.


Small-ball actually is in the wheelhouse of most major league managers. It's where they tended to be more successful as players and it's more aggressive. It isn't just sitting back and waiting for something to happen.

I would rather have a manager looking for an edge, who has his players ready to go off script than one who fills out the lineup card and falls asleep on the bench until the starter on the mound approaches 100 pitches or a move is needed and percentages need to be looked up.

Vizquel will probably be managing in the majors somewhere in 2020 or 2021. He'll probably be more successful than whoever is managing the White Sox at the time.
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:31 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I would rather have a manager looking for an edge, who has his players ready to go off script than one who fills out the lineup card and falls asleep on the bench until the starter on the mound approaches 100 pitches or a move is needed and percentages need to be looked up.
This much, I agree with. But whatever your strategy is, you need to make competent decisions. There was nothing competent about the way Vizquel managed the seventh last night.


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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Vizquel will probably be managing in the majors somewhere in 2020 or 2021. He'll probably be more successful than whoever is managing the White Sox at the time.
And I also think he will be managing in the majors in 2020 or 2021. Managing the White Sox, because that's how Jerry rolls. But if that's how it shakes out, then I wish they'd just stick with Renteria (groan).
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:54 PM
insp insp is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I think the Sox will have to change managers before they're legitimate contenders, but I don't think the heir apparent (Vizquel) is the answer. He's far too interested in small ball, and he just made four different managerial mistakes in the 7th inning of a tie game. See if you can spot them:

- Nate Nolan led off with a hit.
- Vizquel pinch-ran Luis Robert for Nolan.
- Mitch Roman bunted into a forceout.
- Laz Rivera singled.
- Luis Basabe grounded into a double play.
[end of inning]
- Hunter Schryver enters the batting order, batting eighth.
- Luis Robert leaves the game.

First of all, Vizquel called for a sacrifice. Which is just giving away an out.

Second, he pinch-ran Robert ahead of the sacrifice. Robert has great speed and should have been able to steal second without wasting an out. If Vizquel was planning to bunt all along, he should have used backup infielder Ramon Torres as the pinch runner.

Third, he wasted Robert's bat. That's crazy, since Vizquel allowed Roman (now hitting .124) and Basabe (.153) to come to bat in the inning.

And fourth, by pinch running for his catcher, he lost the DH because Yermin Mercedes is the only other catcher on the roster.

But I'm not basing this opinion on one bad inning, or even one bad game. These are Vizquel's tendencies, and they don't belong in modern baseball. His Barons have been really bad this year, both on the road and in their offense-suppressing home park.
You also don't want Minaya as a relief pitcher despite the fact that he now has an ERA of 2.16.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:03 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
See, this disqualifies him in my book. A lineup of Vizquel-like hitters wins nothing. He needs to expand his thinking.
He would be the manager, not the GM, so he isn't putting together a team of Vizquel-like players. He won't get a chance to manage a team like that.

He's saying that players that have power should use launch angle, players like Madrigal and Tilson, shouldn't. Makes sense to me.

That said, I'm open to interviewing a lot of different potential managers for the '21 season. By no means handing the job to Vizquel.
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:09 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by insp View Post
You also don't want Minaya as a relief pitcher despite the fact that he now has an ERA of 2.16.
...and your point is? Has Minaya even pitched 9 innings yet?
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:34 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
This much, I agree with. But whatever your strategy is, you need to make competent decisions. There was nothing competent about the way Vizquel managed the seventh last night.




And I also think he will be managing in the majors in 2020 or 2021. Managing the White Sox, because that's how Jerry rolls. But if that's how it shakes out, then I wish they'd just stick with Renteria (groan).

I don't believe the White Sox will win much at all if they can't play small ball when they need to. There are more wins in small ball than a lot of the analytics people are willing to admit.
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  #26  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:15 AM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I don't believe the White Sox will win much at all if they can't play small ball when they need to. There are more wins in small ball than a lot of the analytics people are willing to admit.
Agreed. We need to BE ABLE TO play small ball in certain situations. All of our Clubs since early Ozzie have not had that ability. The slugging and slogging crew clearly does not work for us.

I would love to have Vizquel as the Sox manager in '20 or '21. Bring back real baseball to the South Side! (just need to bring some real pitching too).
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  #27  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:37 AM
Zisk77 Zisk77 is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
You're saying Vizquel was trying to develop non-prospects Nate Nolan and Mitch Roman to be effective major league hitters? And Luis Martinez (the pitcher) too?

It's one thing to teach players how to play small ball. It's quite another to excuse clown managing as "teaching".
Develop everyone. They are all prospects to some degree. Why else are they there?
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  #28  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:40 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
You're saying Vizquel was trying to develop non-prospects Nate Nolan and Mitch Roman to be effective major league hitters? And Luis Martinez (the pitcher) too?

It's one thing to teach players how to play small ball. It's quite another to excuse clown managing as "teaching".
Guys like Nolan and Roman could potentially one day be the 25th man on a roster in which case they will need to be able to do things like lay down a bunt from time-to-time.
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  #29  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:51 PM
insp insp is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
...and your point is? Has Minaya even pitched 9 innings yet?
He pitched 2 solid innings against Houston proving that you don't know what you're talking about.
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  #30  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:59 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by insp View Post
He pitched 2 solid innings against Houston proving that you don't know what you're talking about.
Two innings proves nothing. You must be new.
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