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  #76  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
That's it, no more, wrap everyone up in bubble wrap.....
Or maybe... I don't know... put up some nets?

There's always going to be people unhappy with any kind of change, period. The team should do what they feel is in the best interests of the majority of people who attend the game and not let a few squeaky wheels dictate policy.
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  #77  
Old 06-24-2019, 10:34 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Or maybe... I don't know... put up some nets?

There's always going to be people unhappy with any kind of change, period. The team should do what they feel is in the best interests of the majority of people who attend the game and not let a few squeaky wheels dictate policy.

Is it the majority of the people who want the nets extended or a few squeaky wheels? Or maybe it's somewhere in between with a majority retreating to the it's-probably-for-the-best position. I can't imagine the nets are being extended by popular demand.

Unless I'm missing something, i.e. the Illinois Legislature being on the verge of requiring the extension of nets to the poles for all professional baseball venues in the state, this sounds more like an action, if not an overreaction, that would make attending Sox games less attractive for many. Forget about how cool the stadium looks, whether the seats are blue or green or if you can see the skyline from your seats. Seriously, if I were growing up in Chicagoland today, there is an excellent chance I wouldn't be growing up a White Sox fan.
  #78  
Old 06-24-2019, 11:01 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Seriously, if I were growing up in Chicagoland today, there is an excellent chance I wouldn't be growing up a White Sox fan.
That was true before or after netting was put up.
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  #79  
Old 06-25-2019, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Is it the majority of the people who want the nets extended or a few squeaky wheels? Or maybe it's somewhere in between with a majority retreating to the it's-probably-for-the-best position. I can't imagine the nets are being extended by popular demand.

Unless I'm missing something, i.e. the Illinois Legislature being on the verge of requiring the extension of nets to the poles for all professional baseball venues in the state, this sounds more like an action, if not an overreaction, that would make attending Sox games less attractive for many. Forget about how cool the stadium looks, whether the seats are blue or green or if you can see the skyline from your seats. Seriously, if I were growing up in Chicagoland today, there is an excellent chance I wouldn't be growing up a White Sox fan.
The main team I rooted for as a kid was the Cubs. I made it out there's still hope for others too.

The simple fact is the vast majority of "fans" in any city are casual fans and will root for whoever the flavor of the month is. Bandwagoneers outnumber hardcore fans by a dramatic percentage.

And sure probably the majority of "fans" are in the "who cares about the netting" or "whatever you do is fine, I don't care enough to think about it" group.

It is what it is. the nets are going up. Time to get over it...
  #80  
Old 06-25-2019, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
The main team I rooted for as a kid was the Cubs. I made it out there's still hope for others too.

The simple fact is the vast majority of "fans" in any city are casual fans and will root for whoever the flavor of the month is. Bandwagoneers outnumber hardcore fans by a dramatic percentage.

And sure probably the majority of "fans" are in the "who cares about the netting" or "whatever you do is fine, I don't care enough to think about it" group.

It is what it is. the nets are going up. Time to get over it...
Bravo.

/thread
  #81  
Old 06-25-2019, 12:57 AM
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The attorneys on here can certainly chime in: my understanding is that those disclaimers on the back of the ticket aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
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  #82  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:30 AM
lpneck lpneck is offline
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Why does this have to be about litigation to some of you?

Why can't it be that the White Sox (and the other MLB teams who will follow suit), don't want to see their paying customers injured, and don't want their employees to have to deal with the emotional fall out of potentially significantly injuring someone?

You know what hurts attendance worse than netting or a team that hasn't made the postseason in a decade? News coverage of a dead little girl or a grandma who gets hit with a line drive.

Stop with the "personal accountability" stuff. There are hundreds of seats 150 feet from home plate currently not covered by netting. A ball hit with an exit velocity of 100 mph gets there in almost exactly 1 second from the time off the bat. It's not irresponsible when a fan who is in a plastic seat surrounded by people on all sides doesn't dodge a 100 mph line drive in less than a second.

I don't like sitting behind the netting either. Lucky for me I prefer the front rows of the upper deck right behind home plate. But I am glad that the White Sox and other MLB teams are tired of their customers being injured and are finally addressing ways to make sure they are safe.
  #83  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpneck View Post
Why does this have to be about litigation to some of you?

Why can't it be that the White Sox (and the other MLB teams who will follow suit), don't want to see their paying customers injured, and don't want their employees to have to deal with the emotional fall out of potentially significantly injuring someone?

You know what hurts attendance worse than netting or a team that hasn't made the postseason in a decade? News coverage of a dead little girl or a grandma who gets hit with a line drive.

Stop with the "personal accountability" stuff. There are hundreds of seats 150 feet from home plate currently not covered by netting. A ball hit with an exit velocity of 100 mph gets there in almost exactly 1 second from the time off the bat. It's not irresponsible when a fan who is in a plastic seat surrounded by people on all sides doesn't dodge a 100 mph line drive in less than a second.

I don't like sitting behind the netting either. Lucky for me I prefer the front rows of the upper deck right behind home plate. But I am glad that the White Sox and other MLB teams are tired of their customers being injured and are finally addressing ways to make sure they are safe.
Well said.
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  #84  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:28 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpneck View Post
Why does this have to be about litigation to some of you?

Why can't it be that the White Sox (and the other MLB teams who will follow suit), don't want to see their paying customers injured, and don't want their employees to have to deal with the emotional fall out of potentially significantly injuring someone?

You know what hurts attendance worse than netting or a team that hasn't made the postseason in a decade? News coverage of a dead little girl or a grandma who gets hit with a line drive.

Stop with the "personal accountability" stuff. There are hundreds of seats 150 feet from home plate currently not covered by netting. A ball hit with an exit velocity of 100 mph gets there in almost exactly 1 second from the time off the bat. It's not irresponsible when a fan who is in a plastic seat surrounded by people on all sides doesn't dodge a 100 mph line drive in less than a second.

I don't like sitting behind the netting either. Lucky for me I prefer the front rows of the upper deck right behind home plate. But I am glad that the White Sox and other MLB teams are tired of their customers being injured and are finally addressing ways to make sure they are safe.
/discussion

Well stated.
  #85  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
The attorneys on here can certainly chime in: my understanding is that those disclaimers on the back of the ticket aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
That is true. So are the disclaimers we sign all the time when we go on a group tour, participate in an organized activity, etc.

They are there because they intimidate some people into not suing and the other purpose is to make it expensive to convince a court to ignore the disclaimer.
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  #86  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:55 AM
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For what it's worth, here's the Illinois law governing the issue. Negligence is immunized. Willful and wanton misconduct is not. I'd prefer to not engage in a lengthy analysis of whether failing to extend the netting when the Sox are on notice of prior incidents at GRF and at other ballparks would constitute willful and wanton misconduct to remove the team's immunity from liability.

CIVIL IMMUNITIES
(745 ILCS 38/) Baseball Facility Liability Act.

(745 ILCS 38/1)
Sec. 1. Short title. This Act may be cited as the Baseball Facility Liability Act.
(Source: P.A. 87-1182.)


(745 ILCS 38/5)
Sec. 5. Definitions. As used in this Act:
"Baseball facility" means any field, park, stadium, or other facility that is used for the play of baseball (regardless of whether it is also used for other purposes) and that is owned or operated by any individual, partnership, corporation, unincorporated association, the State or any of its agencies, officers, instrumentalities, elementary or secondary schools, colleges, or universities, unit of local government, school district, park district, or other body politic and corporate.
"Baseball" includes the game of baseball or softball, including practice, regardless of whether it is played on a professional or amateur basis and regardless of whether it is played under an organized or league structure or outside of any such structure.
"Willful and wanton conduct" means a course of action which shows an actual or deliberate intention to cause harm or which, if not intentional, shows an utter indifference to or conscious disregard for the safety of others or their property.
(Source: P.A. 87-1182.)


(745 ILCS 38/10)
Sec. 10. Liability limited. The owner or operator of a baseball facility shall not be liable for any injury to the person or property of any person as a result of that person being hit by a ball or bat unless: (1) the person is situated behind a screen, backstop, or similar device at a baseball facility and the screen, backstop, or similar device is defective (in a manner other than in width or height) because of the negligence of the owner or operator of the baseball facility; or (2) the injury is caused by willful and wanton conduct, in connection with the game of baseball, of the owner or operator or any baseball player, coach or manager employed by the owner or operator.
(Source: P.A. 87-1182.)


(745 ILCS 38/49)
Sec. 49. Effective date. This Act takes effect upon becoming law.
(Source: P.A. 87-1182.)
  #87  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:39 AM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Dodgers announced they are extending the netting also, though they haven’t said how far yet. This train is leaving the station. The fact that the Sox are at the front of the train just shows that they’re tuned in to the current realities of the world we live in.
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  #88  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:39 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpneck View Post
Why does this have to be about litigation to some of you?

Why can't it be that the White Sox (and the other MLB teams who will follow suit), don't want to see their paying customers injured, and don't want their employees to have to deal with the emotional fall out of potentially significantly injuring someone?

You know what hurts attendance worse than netting or a team that hasn't made the postseason in a decade? News coverage of a dead little girl or a grandma who gets hit with a line drive.

Stop with the "personal accountability" stuff. There are hundreds of seats 150 feet from home plate currently not covered by netting. A ball hit with an exit velocity of 100 mph gets there in almost exactly 1 second from the time off the bat. It's not irresponsible when a fan who is in a plastic seat surrounded by people on all sides doesn't dodge a 100 mph line drive in less than a second.

I don't like sitting behind the netting either. Lucky for me I prefer the front rows of the upper deck right behind home plate. But I am glad that the White Sox and other MLB teams are tired of their customers being injured and are finally addressing ways to make sure they are safe.
I think the personal accountability argument is spot-on. Perhaps the Sox could employ some sort of test that can be administered to determine if a fan has the reaction time required to fend off a 100 mph foul ball. They could also close off those seats to older and younger fans and make sure they're filled with fans blessed with great hand/eye coordination and quick-twitch muscles who are at the ready after each and every pitch during a 3+ hour game.
  #89  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:42 AM
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The "baseball rule" as it is commonly referred to as far as non-liability for the teams is actually pretty solid. Sure, there are exceptions and caveats, but generally, you accept the risk, and legally it's a valid defense.
  #90  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:03 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Is it the majority of the people who want the nets extended or a few squeaky wheels? Or maybe it's somewhere in between with a majority retreating to the it's-probably-for-the-best position. I can't imagine the nets are being extended by popular demand.

Unless I'm missing something, i.e. the Illinois Legislature being on the verge of requiring the extension of nets to the poles for all professional baseball venues in the state, this sounds more like an action, if not an overreaction, that would make attending Sox games less attractive for many. Forget about how cool the stadium looks, whether the seats are blue or green or if you can see the skyline from your seats. Seriously, if I were growing up in Chicagoland today, there is an excellent chance I wouldn't be growing up a White Sox fan.
As opposed to the Cubs, who would have the same amount of netting under this proposed law?

IL state law or not, this is almost certainly coming to all MLB ballparks in the near future. It's not just a Sox thing.

Last edited by Hitmen77; 06-25-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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