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View Poll Results: How Do You Rate the Rebuild Progress After One Complete Season?
Ahead of schedule! This has exceeded my expectations 62 54.39%
On Schedule - this is pretty much where I expected the Sox to be after 2017 45 39.47%
Thumbs Down - We're in for the long haul with mediocrity. 4 3.51%
No Opinion/Refuse to Answer Until 2020 2 1.75%
Churros! 1 0.88%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 10-06-2017, 08:38 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Burger was a reach, and they paid the 2nd pick over-slot for some reason; and they draft for position way too much. I'd like to see them work the draft better like the Astros do (as a reach Burger should/could have been signed below slot, I would think), but I'm not sure they can. So I will just take solid non-reach picks.
On what do you base the claim that Burger was a reach? See my note above for why I don't believe that claim holds any water.
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  #62  
Old 10-06-2017, 11:59 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Thoughts I have found about the Sox draft
SB Nation
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Grade: B+

11. Chicago White Sox

As the Luis Robert signing showed, the White Sox are committed to building a major league roster with homegrown players, even if they have to pay a premium for them. It’s worth wondering what this pick would have looked like without bonus pools and slot suggestions.

This is a pick that can live up to the hype, though, and the White Sox bought in. The strategy is simple: Get the best possible player first, worry exactly where he’s going to fit second. It’s a fine tradition in the draft, and there’s no reason for the White Sox to veer away from it.
Bleacher Report
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Chicago White Sox (A): Added some of the best hitters in the class between Jake Burger, Gavin Sheets and Evan Skoug, all of which will help sooner than later.
Keith law said Sox got two of the best college hitters on board and
Quote:
The Sox kept it going with New Mexico outfielder Luis Gonzalez (3), who might have slipped that far on some late makeup questions. He shows above-average range in center and has good bat speed, with some mechanical issues that might limit his contact rates. UNM plays at the Albuquerque Isotopes' ballpark, one of the most extreme hitters' parks in minor league or Division I baseball, and no position player drafted from UNM has ever posted positive WAR in the majors.
They went after hitters period. Talk of reaching on any of first few picks sounds silly to me
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  #63  
Old 10-07-2017, 01:10 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Burger was a reach
Burger was not a "reach" by any stretch of the imagination. He was consistently rated in the top 20 by pretty much all scouting publications with most having him around 15.
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  #64  
Old 10-07-2017, 07:47 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi
Burger was not a "reach" by any stretch of the imagination. He was consistently rated in the top 20 by pretty much all scouting publications with most having him around 15.
Thank you. It's only a "reach" if you intentionally leave several players on the board that you rated higher than the player you actually drafted. For all we know, the White Sox might have ranked Burger as the 7th-best or 8th-best player in the draft and jumped at the chance to draft him with the 11th pick.

If you want to disagree with the evaluation process that ranked Burger so highly, then you're always welcome to do that, but that would make the pick simply a "bad pick," not a "reach."
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  #65  
Old 10-07-2017, 09:17 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Burger was not a "reach" by any stretch of the imagination. He was consistently rated in the top 20 by pretty much all scouting publications with most having him around 15.
And he was drafted 11. (he was ranked around 20 from what I saw)
And why was Sheets paid over slot; if anything, he was drafted under slot.

That said, overall the draft looked fine.

Last edited by Tragg; 10-07-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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  #66  
Old 10-07-2017, 12:09 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
And he was drafted 11. (he was ranked around 20 from what I saw)
And why was Sheets paid over slot; if anything, he was drafted under slot.

That said, overall the draft looked fine.
Ranked #16 on the MLB prospect list so only a couple spots lower than he was selected. And, as I said earlier, I read several reports that said the middle 20 or so players were ranked basically evenly so the difference between being ranked #8 and ranked #28 was mostly personal preference only.

Pre-draft Jim Callis even called Burger as a likely pick for the Sox:

Quote:
Callis: J.B. Bukauskas, RHP, North Carolina - Barring an unexpected slide, Chicago figures to choose between Bukauskas, Beck, Kentucky first baseman Evan White and Missouri State third baseman Jake Burger.
I just don't see the "reach" claim holding any water.
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  #67  
Old 10-07-2017, 04:11 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post

I do think that this year was a better draft than in previous years where Kenny Williams would target athletes/football players/track stars and not look at the total baseball skills. But when rebuilding, we need to do better.
It's not just this year. last year's draft results don't look bad either with the Sox getting Collins, Burdi, and Hansen in the first 2 rounds. The way Alec Hansen pitched in the minors this past season, he might very well be a total steal for us since we got him at #49 overall.


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Burger and Sheets could turn out as solid players, but players like White, Rogers, Baz and even Bukaskus had better profiles overall, and when you draft power bats with hitting skills that need development, holes in swings, and high strikeout potential, how does that maximize your talent pool?
What is this claim based on?

Here's what mlb.com said about Burger and Sheets:
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/236018...rger-in-draft/
Quote:
Of equal importance were Burger's 38 strikeouts and 43 walks over 247 at-bats this past season. Those statistics fit the offensive mold general manager Rick Hahn has set during this ongoing rebuild.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/237990...icid=151437456
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Gavin Sheets was among the top power-hitting prospects in this year's Draft. As a junior, he slashed .322/.429/.634 with 20 home runs in 227 at-bats. He also walked 44 times and struck out just 33, a stellar ratio for a longball specialist.
As far as this year's draft goes, I also wouldn't discount the Sox getting Evan Skoug in the 7th round just yet.
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  #68  
Old 10-07-2017, 05:41 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
And he was drafted 11. (he was ranked around 20 from what I saw)
That's pretty picky, 4 spots is not really a "reach". BA was the only publication that had him as high as 20 if I remember correctly.

Quote:
And why was Sheets paid over slot; if anything, he was drafted under slot.
Well, he was a draft eligible junior. Perhaps the Sox were thinking he was going to go back for his senior season. Honestly, I don't know.
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  #69  
Old 10-08-2017, 12:36 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Thank you. It's only a "reach" if you intentionally leave several players on the board that you rated higher than the player you actually drafted. For all we know, the White Sox might have ranked Burger as the 7th-best or 8th-best player in the draft and jumped at the chance to draft him with the 11th pick.

If you want to disagree with the evaluation process that ranked Burger so highly, then you're always welcome to do that, but that would make the pick simply a "bad pick," not a "reach."
You're right in your definition of reach; and I of course have no idea of what their internal rankings were.
I just think they drafted for position this year and last. But it's not egregious (although I doubt they pick Burdi had the draft been a month later).

Back to the topic, because of Sanchez, Delmonico and to a lesser extent Leury, Davidson and a couple of others, I can see this team perhaps eyeing the WC in 2019. Now if we had a few of those on the pitching side, I'd be more optimistic about 2018.
The top prospects will come, some won't make it, but hopefully most will; but they aren't enough.
Stockpile the pitching.

Last edited by Tragg; 10-08-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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  #70  
Old 10-09-2017, 10:54 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Now if we had a few of those on the pitching side, I'd be more optimistic about 2018.
The top prospects will come, some won't make it, but hopefully most will; but they aren't enough.
I don't think there's much chance of us competing in 2018 even if we had more top pitching prospects. As it stands, the Sox do have a very strong core of starting pitchers under 24 years old, not too many teams can boast that. We are going to add the #4 pick to a very strong farm system next year, so it's going to get better.
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  #71  
Old 10-09-2017, 11:10 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is online now
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Would any of you contemplate trading Rodon for prospects in order to create an opening for one of our arms in the minors?

Assuming Rodon can pitch well enough to merit top prospects in a year or so.
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  #72  
Old 10-09-2017, 11:14 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
Would any of you contemplate trading Rodon for prospects in order to create an opening for one of our arms in the minors?

Assuming Rodon can pitch well enough to merit top prospects in a year or so.
The problem is no one is in the market for an oft-injured wild card who has only shown glimpses of potential. The Sox have no choice but to just hope he gets healthy and pans out. If he does, maybe we have this conversation next offseason.
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  #73  
Old 10-09-2017, 07:34 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I don't know how you can not say we are way ahead of schedule. Look at the depth in the minors we have. No one does this in a year, no one. And after we graduated a bunch up, we had depth to fill back in the top 100.

Also, in terms of the draft, please provide any real analysis that the Sox picked tools over talent. Baseball drafts are not like anything else, where its easy to see misses early. Saying things like "they reached" after round 1 and "they went cheap" in the draft are just arguments pulled from thin air.
That's how I feel about it. Yes, the Sox lost 95 games this year and I expect them to be below .500 again next year (maybe around .500 at best), but when Rick Hahn & Co. launched this rebuild last fall, I can't imagine many fans expected us to already have this much talent stockpiled at the end of the 2017 season.

Of the few players on the MLB roster that are potentially part of a future playoff contending Sox team, Anderson rebounded after a rough start. Abreu and Garcia had stellar seasons (one or both might still be here in a few years or might be dealt for more talent). Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all seem to be progressing nicely after their 2nd half call ups.

I'm looking forward to see how all this talent further develops in 2018.

Last edited by Hitmen77; 10-09-2017 at 10:05 PM.
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  #74  
Old 10-09-2017, 08:49 PM
shes shes is offline
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The plan is on track, no doubt about it.

In terms of wins, I think we'll see roughly +ten wins each year now until 2020 (i.e., 67 > 77 > 87 > 97 from 2017-2020. The big leap of course is from mid eighties to mid nineties. That requires some of the prospects becoming stars, rather than merely solid everyday players, and that's something that is so hard to predict. Do all of Moncada, Robert, Eloy, and Kopech become superstars? Two of them? None? Does someone else in the minors, or a future draft pick, eventually emerge as a 5+ WAR player if none of those guys live up to expectations?

I'm confident the Sox will have a lot of winning seasons between 2019 and 2027. But whether there's a WS team in there is anyone's guess, and that's going to be the fun part about seeing this thing unfold.
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  #75  
Old 10-10-2017, 09:43 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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2 thoughts on this

(1) Burger was in no way a reach. Especially when you factor the White Sox scouting board is going to vary from the publications. Every team's will. Say they took Sheets at 11, then you could call reach. But Burger, while not the guy I would have taken, was a fine pick.

(2) I think you HAVE to feel even better today about the rebuild. The idea was always get Chris Sale to the playoffs and he would be a Madison Bumgarner that wills his team to win after win..... Well he just lost 2 games for Boston and was key in them being eliminated.
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