White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:17 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Hereís an interesting hypothetical: What if the Sox find themselves on July 30 with a record over .500, and squarely in the wild card race?

Do we become buyers?

If so, who in our minor league system should we be willing to trade in order to buy, say, a starting pitcher?

Who is untouchable?
Hahn has 4 "playoff push" pieces in his back pocket right now if it comes down to us having a chance.

Robert, Cease, Madrigal, and Collins.

I rather take my chances in "rushing" a young guy to help take us over the top vs making a foolish trade.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:19 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,196
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
There is a big difference here. McCann, Colomť, and Leury are guaranteed to be here in 2020. To get Abreu back here in 2020, the White Sox will be doing exactly the same thing that all other interested parties will be doing: taking a number and getting in line.

If anyone wants to give you something halfway decent for 2 months of a 2 WAR 1B, you take it and donít look back. Same goes for 1.5 seasons of a guy in the midst of a career year and still canít break the .700 OPS barrier. Catchers and closers obviously are worth more, so those offers would need to be more enticing.
I got no problem with trading Leury, but McCann and Colome would be lost and they both look like solid pieces to have at need positions going forward. My first choice would be to offer them both 3-4 year extensions.
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:20 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,196
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Hahn has 4 "playoff push" pieces in his back pocket right now if it comes down to us having a chance.

Robert, Cease, Madrigal, and Collins.

I rather take my chances in "rushing" a young guy to help take us over the top vs making a foolish trade.
Well for that matter doing nothing at all would be better than making a "foolish trade" but that's such a loaded term it would be difficult to quantify it.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:27 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I got no problem with trading Leury, but McCann and Colome would be lost and they both look like solid pieces to have at need positions going forward. My first choice would be to offer them both 3-4 year extensions.
There is absolutely zero reason to offer either player extensions right now. Relievers are the most volatile commodity in the game, and McCann won't break the bank if we wait until late into next season to see where he is at as a player to decide on extending him.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:33 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,196
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
There is absolutely zero reason to offer either player extensions right now. Relievers are the most volatile commodity in the game, and McCann won't break the bank if we wait until late into next season to see where he is at as a player to decide on extending him.
It's a good point, I'm just saying I'd rather do that then trade them. However letting them go through the arbitration process works for me also. However, Colome might break the bank and get $17M if he continues to pitch like he has.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:41 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
It's a good point, I'm just saying I'd rather do that then trade them. However letting them go through the arbitration process works for me also. However, Colome might break the bank and get $17M if he continues to pitch like he has.
Locking up players for the next 3-4 years is different than coming to an agreement on next year's salary, which I'm fine doing now.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:44 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 11,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I got no problem with trading Leury, but McCann and Colome would be lost and they both look like solid pieces to have at need positions going forward. My first choice would be to offer them both 3-4 year extensions.
If they want to commit the catcherís spot to McCann for the next few years, fine by me. If they want to keep Colomť, fine by me. I have no problem with the team starting to commit payroll dollars to answer some of these long-term questions.

I just donít see it happening. Each guy is at peak value right now, and locking them in will take some serious cash.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and letís fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:47 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,196
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If they want to commit the catcherís spot to McCann for the next few years, fine by me. If they want to keep Colomť, fine by me. I have no problem with the team starting to commit payroll dollars to answer some of these long-term questions.

I just donít see it happening. Each guy is at peak value right now, and locking them in will take some serious cash.
McCann might take 3/30 with a 4th year option and buyout clause. He'd be worth that even if his OPS regresses to the .750 range due to his defense and pitchers having a comfort level with him.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-15-2019, 03:18 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,072
Default

McCann has literally had multiple negative WAR seasons with the Tigers. It's dubious to me that he has somehow figured out MLB pitching at age 29.
__________________
"Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but its nature is to be extravagant, and those who go so far as to stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only when they are ruined."
-- Thucydides
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-15-2019, 03:28 PM
mzh mzh is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
McCann might take 3/30 with a 4th year option and buyout clause. He'd be worth that even if his OPS regresses to the .750 range due to his defense and pitchers having a comfort level with him.
He still has two years of arbitration left and he's only making $2.5MM this season, so I don't see much reason to lock him in to that kind of deal now. If he's still raking in August of 2020, go for it, but he'll still be reasonably cheap as long as he's under team control. No need to go overkill, I don't think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
McCann has literally had multiple negative WAR seasons with the Tigers. It's dubious to me that he has somehow figured out MLB pitching at age 29.
Stranger things have happened. He won't run a .400 BABIP forever, but he's hitting the ball harder than he ever has before. He's not a star but I don't think this is a fluke, either.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-15-2019, 03:38 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 20,707
Blog Entries: 1
Default

No reason to trade or extend McCann at this point. Go to arbitration with him, let him get a nice payday for 2020, and have him mentor both Collins and Zavala in 2020. All three can get reps at catcher, and Collins and McCann can DH.

I would extend Abreu for 2020 and 2021.

For 2021, you can either decide to extend McCann, or you can let Collins and Zavala platoon at catcher, and have Abreu and Vaughn share 1B/DH duties.

Then, in 2022, Vaughn moves to 1B full time, and DH can be solved by whomever stands out as the best option (either Eloy, if more than one corner OF prospect earns starting roles flanking Robert, or Sheets or Burger or a free agent).
__________________
The universe is the practical joke of the General at the expense of the Particular, quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow. Others laughed, seeing the Universal Joke. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though FRATER laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-15-2019, 03:42 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just off the DFW flight path
Posts: 1,159
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
McCann has literally had multiple negative WAR seasons with the Tigers. It's dubious to me that he has somehow figured out MLB pitching at age 29.
Isnít 27/28/29 literally when guys start to figure it out, or in another word, peak? Then have good 30/31/32 seasons then typically start a slow decline to retirement?
__________________
**Xploding Scorbord**
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-15-2019, 04:54 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,196
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Zevala is going to have to make a HUGE step up offensively to ever get regular PT at the major league level. People should not be counting on him ever being a viable piece of the puzzle. Not even sure he qualifies as AAAA material. He just can't hit...
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-15-2019, 05:32 PM
insp insp is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
No, good heavens no. It's like after 2008, some wizard cursed the White Sox with being good in June and July. This has led to multiple times when the Sox should have been big sellers in the summer and instead either stood pat or added players.

Colome? He needs to get shipped to a contender next month. Abreu too. And if anyone is willing to offer anything whatsoever for Leury or McCann, they gone too.
So, in other words, you see the White Sox as a minor league team for the big boys of MLB.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-15-2019, 05:59 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 20,707
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Zevala is going to have to make a HUGE step up offensively to ever get regular PT at the major league level. People should not be counting on him ever being a viable piece of the puzzle. Not even sure he qualifies as AAAA material. He just can't hit...
I think his MLB sample size was much, much too short to draw any sort of definitive conclusions. Just the Sox recent history with catchers should tell us that patience is is a virtue; Tyler Flowers has developed into a pretty decent hitter as a catcher, as has Omar Narvaez.

I think Zavala can be acceptable in 2020 as the backup behind a McCann/Collins C/DH rotation, starting at catcher primarily against LHP.

If he can handle that in 2020, then I think he can be acceptable as the RH platoon partner to Collins entering 2021. In fact, check out his splits; heís a much better hitter against LHP, whereas Collins - as should be expected - hits quite well against RHP but struggled against LHP.

Other than the obvious superstars, catchers generally take longer to develop because they:

1. Have more parts of their game to improve than any other pitcher or position player: hitting, fielding, AND working with pitchers;

2. Because of the demands of the position, they get more off days than most other starting position players, so they get fewer plate appearances over a season (unless they are such stud hitters that their team plays them a lot at DH, in which case they are getting fewer reps defensively).
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:24 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.