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  #16  
Old 05-06-2019, 08:02 AM
Kilroy Kilroy is offline
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It is always amazing how one bad decision/play can push things off a cliff, and you can smell it coming. Delmonico made a nice play that would have held Devers on first, but TA made that ill-advised throw to first and two errors later, Devers is on third.

I decided to go out and clean my gutters. By the time I got my shoes tied, Chavis had walked.

They had survived a Dylan Covey start and were still in the game. They had looked poor on offense but had managed to tie it up. There was nothing that said they'd roll up a double play and survive the two errors. Nothing.

The pitching is a horror show.
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2019, 08:28 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Tell me about the rabbits, George.


I'm better off not caring. My life would be so much more productive without the frustration of baseball.
After the shelling of Banuelos Saturday night- turned off the TV, deleted my upcoming recordings of Sox games, deleted and unsubscribed from Sox related podcasts- other than Luis Robert, I can't find any silver lining anywhere for how this rebuild is going-

Eloy's injury with a clown attempt at a fly ball
4 top pitching prospects in various stages of TJ surgery (I'm assuming that's where Rodon is headed + Dunning, Kopech and Burdi)
A 3rd full season of hot garbage like Engel, Minaya, Palka, N. Jones, Sanchez, etc.- more mediocre FAs not working out- Castillo, Nova, Santana, Jay, Alonso, etc.
Lack of fundamentals and ability to play a "clean" baseball game- I have zero faith the Rentaria is this great "teacher and communicator" we've heard so much about- combined with a mediocre coaching staff of White Sox lifers Since Harrelson fired LaRusse 33 seasons ago- other than Torborg and Guillen (2004-2008)- nothing but mediocre, sleepy, inept managers.
Moncada now hitting .248 over the last 30 days, the league has adjusted, hopefully he can adjust back.
Anderson has been great at the plate (cooling off a bit), but is on pace for ~45 errors if things don't change.

Every morning on MLB channel Quick Pitch- I get to watch rebuilds that are working in Atlanta, Philadelphia and (most painfully) San Diego where we gave up Tatis, Jr for a washed up veteran for a pennant race that we weren't really in and lost Machado because we were worried about financial risk in 2027 and 2028 (for a franchise that has 1 post season appearance in 14 years, zero in the last 11, and is disappearing in their market while the team across town goes for their 5th consecutive post season appearance).

Someone- please- tell me about the rabbits.
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2019, 10:02 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Well...

Another bullpen blow up (but at least they didn't blow a lead since the game was tied), another pitcher got hurt apparently, another set of errors by Timmy and Jose' and another dismal showing in front of a very large crowd.

As Steve Stone said during the broadcast, "With all the speed bumps you have during a season you have to have depth..."

Year three of the rebuild and the White Sox have precious little of it and in my opinion injuries are no longer an easy excuse.

Just what the **** is going on in the minor league system from a drafting and developing stand point?

Inquiring minds want to know
.
What exactly were you expecting? What ML team has the ability to overcome the loss of 2 starters in the rotation in a span of a couple weeks? The Sox were thin at Starting Pitching to begin with since they were counting on 2 guys who were reclamation projects. Even if they had 5 ML quality starters in their rotation and lost 2 of them they'd still be in a jam.



Pitchers are a crap shoot in terms of development. There is no timetable that can be universally applied to every pitching prospect. Some will take longer than others. Some will burn out sooner than later. The notion that there should be a bunch of guys just waiting to be called up is absurd. No team has depth like that when it comes to pitching.
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  #19  
Old 05-06-2019, 10:29 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
What exactly were you expecting? What ML team has the ability to overcome the loss of 2 starters in the rotation in a span of a couple weeks? The Sox were thin at Starting Pitching to begin with since they were counting on 2 guys who were reclamation projects. Even if they had 5 ML quality starters in their rotation and lost 2 of them they'd still be in a jam.

Pitchers are a crap shoot in terms of development. There is no timetable that can be universally applied to every pitching prospect. Some will take longer than others. Some will burn out sooner than later. The notion that there should be a bunch of guys just waiting to be called up is absurd. No team has depth like that when it comes to pitching.
Agreed. Kopech had TJS - and that's not just a "White Sox problem", that's a league-wide problem. Cease might be ready soon, but let's not rush him only to call him a failure when it turns out he was not quite ready to move up to the majors.
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  #20  
Old 05-06-2019, 10:36 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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I can think of only two possible reasons to put gas can Minaya out there to predictably cough up that grand slam:

1) Renteria is in way over his head and should not be a major league manager.

2) Renteria did it out of spite to call out this front office for being stupid enough to think that promoting Minaya qualified as bullpen help.

I am sure it is the latter. If was was manager I would have spoken to Anderson about that error at the end of the inning. Then, regardless of the talk, my first thought was to sit Anderson tonight.

Thinking again, I'd come into today and call Moncada and TA in the office and talk to them. They're to be the leaders of the team and they must lead by example. Mental errors are not to be tolerated.

Then, I'd have a heart to heart with Hahn and Cooper and tell them to get me guys that can pitch. Starting now.
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:01 AM
ricker182 ricker182 is offline
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If you want a real shocker, here's Charlotte's starters' ERA's (outside of Cease):

Roach - 10.25
Stephens - 9.48
Guerrero - 8.88
Adams - 8.00

That's some high quality pitching.
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  #22  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:14 AM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
After the shelling of Banuelos Saturday night- turned off the TV, deleted my upcoming recordings of Sox games, deleted and unsubscribed from Sox related podcasts- other than Luis Robert, I can't find any silver lining anywhere for how this rebuild is going-

Eloy's injury with a clown attempt at a fly ball
4 top pitching prospects in various stages of TJ surgery (I'm assuming that's where Rodon is headed + Dunning, Kopech and Burdi)
A 3rd full season of hot garbage like Engel, Minaya, Palka, N. Jones, Sanchez, etc.- more mediocre FAs not working out- Castillo, Nova, Santana, Jay, Alonso, etc.
Lack of fundamentals and ability to play a "clean" baseball game- I have zero faith the Rentaria is this great "teacher and communicator" we've heard so much about- combined with a mediocre coaching staff of White Sox lifers Since Harrelson fired LaRusse 33 seasons ago- other than Torborg and Guillen (2004-2008)- nothing but mediocre, sleepy, inept managers.
Moncada now hitting .248 over the last 30 days, the league has adjusted, hopefully he can adjust back.
Anderson has been great at the plate (cooling off a bit), but is on pace for ~45 errors if things don't change.

Every morning on MLB channel Quick Pitch- I get to watch rebuilds that are working in Atlanta, Philadelphia and (most painfully) San Diego where we gave up Tatis, Jr for a washed up veteran for a pennant race that we weren't really in and lost Machado because we were worried about financial risk in 2027 and 2028 (for a franchise that has 1 post season appearance in 14 years, zero in the last 11, and is disappearing in their market while the team across town goes for their 5th consecutive post season appearance).

Someone- please- tell me about the rabbits.
Excellent post, this is starting to get serious as the rebuild looks like it might be on life support and it's all on the people who run the organization.
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:29 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
What exactly were you expecting? What ML team has the ability to overcome the loss of 2 starters in the rotation in a span of a couple weeks? The Sox were thin at Starting Pitching to begin with since they were counting on 2 guys who were reclamation projects. Even if they had 5 ML quality starters in their rotation and lost 2 of them they'd still be in a jam.



Pitchers are a crap shoot in terms of development. There is no timetable that can be universally applied to every pitching prospect. Some will take longer than others. Some will burn out sooner than later. The notion that there should be a bunch of guys just waiting to be called up is absurd. No team has depth like that when it comes to pitching.
Just one question, where is anybody WORTH A DAMN in the minor leagues outside of Cease? Have you seen the ERA's of some of the guys in the minors?

Don't give me this BS that no team could overcome this. I grant you on paper the pitchers the Sox lost are supposedly good or going to be good but there doesn't seem to be anybody in the minors ready to step in and at least not be an embarrassment.

That face that they had to go out and get guys like Nova and Santana speaks volumes no?

Three years into a rebuild and NOBODY appears to be a competent replacement...explain that one please?

As I stated what the **** is going on with drafting and development (which others have also questioned)
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  #24  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:32 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
What exactly were you expecting? What ML team has the ability to overcome the loss of 2 starters in the rotation in a span of a couple weeks? The Sox were thin at Starting Pitching to begin with since they were counting on 2 guys who were reclamation projects. Even if they had 5 ML quality starters in their rotation and lost 2 of them they'd still be in a jam.



Pitchers are a crap shoot in terms of development. There is no timetable that can be universally applied to every pitching prospect. Some will take longer than others. Some will burn out sooner than later. The notion that there should be a bunch of guys just waiting to be called up is absurd. No team has depth like that when it comes to pitching.
This is my number one pet peeve about the folks upset with where the Sox currently are in their rebuild timetable. No team has gobs and gobs of starting pitching depth just waiting to be called up. It's simply poor logic to assume that's the case. If pitchers are ready to go they come up. Most teams might have one #5 quality starter in the minors, but if the pitcher is good enough to be in the top 3 they aren't in the minors they are up and the current #5 gets bumped, dumped or traded.
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  #25  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:38 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Just one question, where is anybody WORTH A DAMN in the minor leagues outside of Cease? Have you seen the ERA's of some of the guys in the minors?

Don't give me this BS that no team could overcome this. I grant you on paper the pitchers the Sox lost are supposedly good or going to be good but there doesn't seem to be anybody in the minors ready to step in and at least not be an embarrassment.

That face that they had to go out and get guys like Nova and Santana speaks volumes no?

Three years into a rebuild and NOBODY appears to be a competent replacement...explain that one please?

As I stated what the **** is going on with drafting and development (which others have also questioned)
Okay, I'll explain it...

Rodon is injured and future status is unknown at this time.

Kopech is injured and out until 2020.

Dunning is injured and out until 2021.

Cease is still working his way up and is not ready yet.

Hansen took a regression step last year but appears to be fighting his way back to form this season.

There are other pitchers at AA and A+ who are up and coming but a few years away minimum and I'm not going to start listing them

FYI, Covey had an excellent ERA at AAA but everyone seems to think he's worthless, so damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess.

I agree the current ERA of the guys you mentioned is disappointing, but it's also fairly common for players to cap out at AA or AAA as you know.

The simple fact is a good portion of the high end depth got injured in a relatively short period of time. It sucks, but it is what it is.
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  #26  
Old 05-06-2019, 12:18 PM
cv sox fan cv sox fan is offline
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In the mean time we’re stuck with inferior baseball. Other organizations seem more prepared to overcome.All this depth in the minor league is a crapshoot too.Everyone complains about pitching we have nothing but hacks in the outfield.Leftside of infield has potential but catching and throwing are a big part of the game and Anderson makes to many.Theres not a starter on the team who has been on a consistent winning ball club.I blame front office for this environment.It gets hard to watch this team and everyone says 2020 I don’t see it I see this franchise stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future being a Sox fan is not fun currently
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2019, 12:25 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
This is my number one pet peeve about the folks upset with where the Sox currently are in their rebuild timetable. No team has gobs and gobs of starting pitching depth just waiting to be called up. It's simply poor logic to assume that's the case. If pitchers are ready to go they come up. Most teams might have one #5 quality starter in the minors, but if the pitcher is good enough to be in the top 3 they aren't in the minors they are up and the current #5 gets bumped, dumped or traded.
Most teams don't go into a season assuming a 36-year-old veteran who only pitched 24 innings last year can be counted on to eat a lot of innings this year. The Sox did. They were also counting on big years from Rodon, who is a year removed from shoulder surgery and has been injured quite a bit and a turn around from Lucas Giolito, who led the league in ERA last year. Even the peripherals on Lopez suggested there could be some problems.

I'm assuming the Sox figured they'd be bad this year and it was clear from the outset that pitching, staring pitching in particular, could be a weakness. What's a bit upsetting is that the Sox did so little to even attempt to address this issue, and so many other issues, in the offseason.
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  #28  
Old 05-06-2019, 12:42 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by cv sox fan View Post
In the mean time we’re stuck with inferior baseball. Other organizations seem more prepared to overcome.All this depth in the minor league is a crapshoot too.Everyone complains about pitching we have nothing but hacks in the outfield.Leftside of infield has potential but catching and throwing are a big part of the game and Anderson makes to many.Theres not a starter on the team who has been on a consistent winning ball club.I blame front office for this environment.It gets hard to watch this team and everyone says 2020 I don’t see it I see this franchise stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future being a Sox fan is not fun currently
The earliest I see the White Sox contending is 2021 and that is a big maybe, too many questions marks with injuries and some players not living up to expectations. There is going to have to be some major free agent signings for this rebuild to have a happy ending.
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  #29  
Old 05-06-2019, 12:44 PM
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Most teams don't go into a season assuming a 36-year-old veteran who only pitched 24 innings last year can be counted on to eat a lot of innings this year. The Sox did. They were also counting on big years from Rodon, who is a year removed from shoulder surgery and has been injured quite a bit and a turn around from Lucas Giolito, who led the league in ERA last year. Even the peripherals on Lopez suggested there could be some problems.

I'm assuming the Sox figured they'd be bad this year and it was clear from the outset that pitching, staring pitching in particular, could be a weakness. What's a bit upsetting is that the Sox did so little to even attempt to address this issue, and so many other issues, in the offseason.
But at best after Kopech and Dunning went down the Sox were not looking at 2019 as anything but another rebuild year where if everything went right they might push for a playoff spot.
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  #30  
Old 05-06-2019, 12:50 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
But at best after Kopech and Dunning went down the Sox were not looking at 2019 as anything but another rebuild year where if everything went right they might push for a playoff spot.
Even if they weren't counting on it as a rebuild year, you still needed SOMEONE who could cover those innings. They needed someone like James Shields, they probably needed two James Shields actually and they went with Santana, which raises questions.
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