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  #46  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:37 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I have no interest in the Sox signing free agents for next season or rushing prospects. That's really not what I meant.
Just be ready if things start to blossom.
I have a big interest in the Sox signing Machado. It would mean a lot of good things for our organization.
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  #47  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:16 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile
Um... no, but he's a real good hitter...

Sometimes we forget just how good Frank was those first 7 years in the league...

Frank:
http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/stats...0/frank-thomas

Abreu:
http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/stats...095/jose-abreu
Relevant to Voodoo's point:

https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/the-big-hurt/

Heading into the new millennium, the only players who had ever hit .320 or better and hit 300 or more home runs over their first 10 seasons were Frank Thomas, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron, and Joe DiMaggio.

Frank Thomas is a baseball immortal. Jose Abreu is not. And that is not supposed to be a knock on Abreu at all.
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  #48  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:35 AM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
I have a big interest in the Sox signing Machado. It would mean a lot of good things for our organization.
I looked ahead to FA lists all the way to 2021. Between now and then, there are absolutely NO great or even good FA signings. If the Sox are going to sign any FAs worth a damn, they absolutely need to do it in 2019 because everything after that is just trash.

So yes, I also have a big interest in the Sox signing Machado. Or if, by some miracle Kershaw is available, him. But that's pie in the sky-level stuff, so let's be more realistic and just aim for Machado here.
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  #49  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:33 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
I looked ahead to FA lists all the way to 2021. Between now and then, there are absolutely NO great or even good FA signings. If the Sox are going to sign any FAs worth a damn, they absolutely need to do it in 2019 because everything after that is just trash.

So yes, I also have a big interest in the Sox signing Machado. Or if, by some miracle Kershaw is available, him. But that's pie in the sky-level stuff, so let's be more realistic and just aim for Machado here.
There are tons of good-to-great free agents for '19, '20, and '21, including Sale, Verlander, Harper, Trout, Machado, Kershaw, Molina, Keuchel, Felix Hernandez, Goldschmidt, etc. Machado is just one of many.

The Sox might also be able to land a top-tier player via a trade but I'm not on board with leveraging their farm for a rental - not unless they were a piece away from a championship.
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  #50  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:45 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
There are tons of good-to-great free agents for '19, '20, and '21, including Sale, Verlander, Harper, Trout, Machado, Kershaw, Molina, Keuchel, Felix Hernandez, Goldschmidt, etc. Machado is just one of many.
Felix is toast; Molina will be in a couple years.
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  #51  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:47 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg
As for Abreu, it's that he'll be gone in a year and a half.
For some reason, this fact is being intentionally ignored by most of the “keep Abreu” crowd. I wish I knew why.
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  #52  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:03 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
There are tons of good-to-great free agents for '19, '20, and '21, including Sale, Verlander, Harper, Trout, Machado, Kershaw, Molina, Keuchel, Felix Hernandez, Goldschmidt, etc. Machado is just one of many.

The Sox might also be able to land a top-tier player via a trade but I'm not on board with leveraging their farm for a rental - not unless they were a piece away from a championship.
Most of those names are either going to be resigned by their respective clubs (and yes, Kershaw is also likely one of them) or are on the wrong side of 30 and will be seeking big contracts. So no, compared to someone like Machado or Harper, there are no really good signings.

Note: I said FA *signings*, not *players*. There may be good players on that list sure, but they'll cost albatross contracts that will weigh the team down as they break down from Father Time. At least with what Machado and Harper will be seeking, the years + money they are likely to pay off down the road. I'm including the whole package value here, not just a few years of production.
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  #53  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:04 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
For some reason, this fact is being intentionally ignored by most of the “keep Abreu” crowd. I wish I knew why.
Because it is not a fact, it is speculation.
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  #54  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:38 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc
Because it is not a fact, it is speculation.
OK, if the issue is with the word “gone,” then replace “gone” with “will be a free agent.” The point is still the same: people are putting way too much stock into this idea of Abreu signing a mythical team-friendly extension and avoiding free agency.
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  #55  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:48 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
OK, if the issue is with the word “gone,” then replace “gone” with “will be a free agent.” The point is still the same: people are putting way too much stock into this idea of Abreu signing a mythical team-friendly extension and avoiding free agency.
There are no guarantees, but Abreu does seem to enjoy playing for the Sox and by the time he goes FA Jimenez will be up and Robert will be close. The sox have a strong Cuban connection right now and several young Latino players he seems to be mentoring with more on the way. There are attractions to the Sox that go beyond money and it's not irresponsible to think he might take a slightly smaller contract to remain here.

Will it happen? Who knows? What will his market be in 2019 off-season? Who knows? Will the Sox say "screw it" and pay what the market is offering or close enough to make him thing twice? Who knows?

Maybe he'll be here, maybe he won't. Maybe he signs an extension before hitting FA - certainly stranger things have happened...
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  #56  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:01 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
OK, if the issue is with the word “gone,” then replace “gone” with “will be a free agent.” The point is still the same: people are putting way too much stock into this idea of Abreu signing a mythical team-friendly extension and avoiding free agency.
I don't see him giving the White Sox a discount of any significance- I also don't expect money to be his only criteria in his next contract. As long as they make him a legitimate offer (aligned with market value), I think he would stay.

If they can get a premium 3rd base prospect, possibly a premium LHP- I would consider moving Abreu. But it it's just adding more outfielders, or RH pitchers- not sure if it's worth it.
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  #57  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:08 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile
There are no guarantees, but Abreu does seem to enjoy playing for the Sox and by the time he goes FA Jimenez will be up and Robert will be close. The sox have a strong Cuban connection right now and several young Latino players he seems to be mentoring with more on the way. There are attractions to the Sox that go beyond money and it's not irresponsible to think he might take a slightly smaller contract to remain here.

Will it happen? Who knows? What will his market be in 2019 off-season? Who knows? Will the Sox say "screw it" and pay what the market is offering or close enough to make him thing twice? Who knows?

Maybe he'll be here, maybe he won't. Maybe he signs an extension before hitting FA - certainly stranger things have happened...
So, basically, we’re left with a bunch of maybes based on supposed “good vibes,” or the idea that there is something monumentally important about Jose Abreu, Yoan Moncada, and Luis Robert all happening to be Cuban. That idea sounds like people are letting their personal fondness for Abreu affect their objectivity. I really hope this isn’t the team’s thought process regarding this Abreu situation.

Make the trade, get the young talent, and increase the chances of this whole process paying dividends. Or be a big-boy franchise and call his agent right now with a big-money extension and a deadline to accept it. Either course of action relieves a lot of uncertainty for this organization.

All I ask is that we please not hand-wring for six weeks and end up back where we started.
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  #58  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:54 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
I have a big interest in the Sox signing Machado. It would mean a lot of good things for our organization.
I disagree strongly. Tying up 1/4 the payroll in one player, who is himself a fringe superstar, is a horrible idea.
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  #59  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:56 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
There are no guarantees, but Abreu does seem to enjoy playing for the Sox and by the time he goes FA Jimenez will be up and Robert will be close. The sox have a strong Cuban connection right now and several young Latino players he seems to be mentoring with more on the way. There are attractions to the Sox that go beyond money and it's not irresponsible to think he might take a slightly smaller contract to remain here.

Will it happen? Who knows? What will his market be in 2019 off-season? Who knows? Will the Sox say "screw it" and pay what the market is offering or close enough to make him thing twice? Who knows?

Maybe he'll be here, maybe he won't. Maybe he signs an extension before hitting FA - certainly stranger things have happened...
This organization doesn't have a lot going for it as far as FA's and unsigned international players. This is one place we have a strong hold is with the cubans... all I will say
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  #60  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:23 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
OK, if the issue is with the word “gone,” then replace “gone” with “will be a free agent.” The point is still the same: people are putting way too much stock into this idea of Abreu signing a mythical team-friendly extension and avoiding free agency.
Why does it have to be team-friendly?
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