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  #61  
Old 05-31-2018, 05:25 AM
The Dude The Dude is offline
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When does Maddon's contract end? Would be hilarious to follow the same blueprint.

Also, its been years but hello WSI. Miss you guys.
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  #62  
Old 05-31-2018, 08:47 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
OK, even though I'm neither a kinesiologist nor a nutritionist, I'll try to thread the needle here, purely with hypothetical speculation...


I don't think that Herm Schneider is negligent, or that his training practices are leading to more player injuries. Some of Lip's previous posts were being translated by me (and others) as beginning to lean that way. Communication is a two-way street and even though the words are in black and white, the reader is going to infer/interpret different meanings than the writer intended.



I think it is possible that, as training and sports medicine have changed, and players are becoming more concerned not just with fitness, but various body metrics, nutrition, that some of the Sox training practices don't work as well as they did previously, or not as well as other teams, or maybe other teams are just a lot more hands-on/intrusive than the Sox.



Pitchers suffer more injuries, and more debilitating injuries, than position players. The Sox have a history of handling that pretty well compared to other clubs, in part because their philosophy for so many years has been the Don Cooper/Mark Buehrle model: throw strikes, pitch to contact, keep your pitch count low, and don't go max effort all the time. Mark Buehrle's remarkable health record and consistency for such a long time also meant that one-fifth of our rotation was not contributing to DL trips. Another half-decade of Chris Sale's freakish ability to pitch with mechanics that end most pitchers' careers, with hardly any games missed, also was a stroke of luck and inflated our health record. Now that the Sox have been drafting more power arms, it's no surprise that we've seen more injuries to shoulders and elbows, because this is what happens to many power pitchers.



Injuries to position players are more random. Getting hit by a pitch or badly bruised by a collision at the plate results in the kind of hurt that a good trainer can help a player overcome more quickly. I'd guess that Herm Schneider and his staff are probably very good at this kind of stuff, and maybe even the best in the business.



I'm also certain that the Sox are fully updated with the most advanced emergency procedures and concussion protocols, and the Sox physicians are probably up to speed with fixing broken bones and anything requiring surgery. I don't think Nicky Delmonico's hand or Ryan Cordell's shoulder are going to heal faster in other organizations.



It seems to me based on the limited evidence that is available to us, that perhaps where the Sox might have fallen behind is in customizing nutrition, recovery, and stretching, to individual players who also are doing more than ever "on their own."


Take Avi Garcia. He "lost weight" last year (more likely dropped fat but added muscle), likely through both a better diet and exercise during the 2016-2017 offseason. His 2017 results speak for themselves. So Garcia keeps it up and Schneider notices the results and says "good job." Maybe he's working out a lot more on his own where Schenider can't monitor exactly what he's doing. Maybe Garcia skips his cool down stretching after his workout and his hamstring is tight that day, or maybe he doesn't drink enough water or he ate some questionable meat and got a little sick to his stomach and didn't sufficiently rehydrate, and because Renteria is benching guys for not hustling, Garcia hustles extra hard and badly injures his hamstring.


Same kinda thing with Jake Burger. Maybe other clubs would be more intrusive with his recovery and make him have a trainer stay with him full-time. Would that have made a difference? Who knows?



I'm a little concerned with Luis Robert. His Instagram suggests that he is a workout fiend and he's turned himself into a physical specimen. I'm wondering just how closely some of his training (specifically in the offseason) was monitored by the Sox.


Fireable offenses? No.


But maybe Lip's right - you bring in an outside consultant with fresh eyes who can make recommendations on how to improve the areas of "training" that need to be updated, without throwing out what you do well.
Excellent post. I understand if some don't take what I wrote before at face value. After all, I'm an anonymous, relatively infrequent, poster on a message board.

Anyway, what you wrote does a pretty darn good job of articulating the point my friend made. The Sox are behind in terms of customized work-out programs, nutrition, sleep plans, advanced scouting (not a Herm thing), etc. Occasionally, all businesses need updating. For what it's worth, Getz is apparently working to do just that on the player development front.
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  #63  
Old 05-31-2018, 01:49 PM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
All we can go on to anticipate future strategy is the employment of present strategy, and at present, this team bunts waaaaay too often.

But we can't anticipate future strategy on present strategy. Present strategy is predicated on developing young players. Having those young players successfully bunt in a game situation builds confidence for the future. There may be a future game when the Sox are in contention that depends on getting a bunt down in a late inning.



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I understand that forfeiting 6 runs over the course of 100 bunting situations is only a marginal detriment. However, it is still a detriment, and the entire point of analytics departments is to avoid as many of those marginal detriments as possible. For example, even though defensive shifts don't provide that many extra outs over the course of a season, they still provide some extra outs when compared to the alternative of not employing them. Failing to take those "free outs" is simply bad managing.

This is playing baseball on a spreadsheet, not in the analog world. In a future Kopech/Sale matchup, bunting and playing for one run in the second inning could win you the game. Similarly, shifts against leadoff hitters in an inning can be defeated over and over by bunting, if players are willing to put in the work.


Moneyball and analytics have contributed more to the excessive length of baseball games than any other factors.
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  #64  
Old 05-31-2018, 02:44 PM
PaleHoser PaleHoser is offline
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I think Ricky's reliance on the bunt will decrease once he can field a lineup with more than six hitters that can hit their weight.
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  #65  
Old 05-31-2018, 03:03 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones
This is playing baseball on a spreadsheet, not in the analog world. In a future Kopech/Sale matchup, bunting and playing for one run in the second inning could win you the game. Similarly, shifts against leadoff hitters in an inning can be defeated over and over by bunting, if players are willing to put in the work.


Moneyball and analytics have contributed more to the excessive length of baseball games than any other factors.
I sure as hell hope my team plays by the spreadsheet when wins and losses finally matter again. I could not care less about the length of time that games take. All I care about is getting the team to a point where they win far more of those long games than they lose, including a few dozen wins in October.
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  #66  
Old 05-31-2018, 05:09 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Renteria might not be championship caliber, but we won't be able to evaluate how he does with a decent roster for a couple more years.

So cool the fire Ricky talk, please. In my opinion, he's better than any Sox manager since Torborg. Chances are that any replacement brought in by current ownership would be worse.
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  #67  
Old 05-31-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PaleHoser View Post
I think Ricky's reliance on the bunt will decrease once he can field a lineup with more than six hitters that can hit their weight.
Ricky is probably relying on bunting so much because this entire season is extended Spring Training. Why not work on some fundamentals?
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  #68  
Old 05-31-2018, 06:20 PM
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I donít have an opinion one way or the other about Herm, so I ask this only from the standpoint of furthering the discussion... do the Sox (or other MLB teams) have a strength & conditioning coach and/or a nutritionist in the clubhouse? Iíve always thought of Herm as the guy whose purview includes injuries/general health of the players... but I wouldnít have thought of him as the guy who is designing fitness programs or dietary plans...? Or is the point that he supervises that type of staff?
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  #69  
Old 05-31-2018, 07:13 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Originally Posted by Over By There View Post
I donít have an opinion one way or the other about Herm, so I ask this only from the standpoint of furthering the discussion... do the Sox (or other MLB teams) have a strength & conditioning coach and/or a nutritionist in the clubhouse? Iíve always thought of Herm as the guy whose purview includes injuries/general health of the players... but I wouldnít have thought of him as the guy who is designing fitness programs or dietary plans...? Or is the point that he supervises that type of staff?
Allen Thomas is the strength and conditioning coach and from everything I've seen, seems competent to do the job. I'm confused why the finger is getting pointed at Herm here
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  #70  
Old 05-31-2018, 08:26 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Allen Thomas is the strength and conditioning coach and from everything I've seen, seems competent to do the job. I'm confused why the finger is getting pointed at Herm here

No one is pointing the finger at Herm. Worse yet, no one is asking questions about injuries, how strength/conditioning training has evolved over time, the role of diet and rest for players during the season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
Lip beat me to it. Muscular issues, especially those associated with the legs, can be minimized somewhat with running and proper stretching. Proper stretching both before and after physical activity is a mindset. A well-conditioned athlete makes that a major component to his workout. If he doesn't, then it falls upon the strength and conditioning staff to see that it's done.

I, too, believe some of Avi's injury history could have been reduced with better conditioning. i.e. those dealing with muscular issues. Moncada has one of those builds that only come along once in a great while. I hope he understands the need to prepare his body for 6-8 months of playing baseball and all the demands that come with it. I'm a little concerned right now that he doesn't.

Were questions asked about conditioning when Moncada and Avi pulled up with hamstring injuries?


Moncada didn't have a very good diet when he came over? Has a beat reported asked questions about Moncada's diet when he was sidelined?
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  #71  
Old 06-01-2018, 07:07 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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How much authority do teams have over player diets, workout regiments, and curfews? Additionally, does any of that authority extend into the offseason?

6 weeks of spring training and routines on game day won’t do much to reverse 4.5 months of offseason inattentiveness. I need the answers to those questions before I start assessing blame.
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  #72  
Old 06-01-2018, 08:02 AM
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Are two hamstring injuries over the course of the first two months of the season (Avi and Moncada) an epidemic or even an inordinate amount? Is there any team in MLB that hasn't sent at least one player to the DL this season with a hamstring injury?


On the other side of town, Yu Darvish spent time on the DL this season with the flu. Are Cub fans ragging on Ricketts, Theo, Hoyer and the training staff for not requiring the players to get flu shots during the off season?
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  #73  
Old 06-01-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
No one is pointing the finger at Herm. Worse yet, no one is asking questions about injuries, how strength/conditioning training has evolved over time, the role of diet and rest for players during the season.





Were questions asked about conditioning when Moncada and Avi pulled up with hamstring injuries?


Moncada didn't have a very good diet when he came over? Has a beat reported asked questions about Moncada's diet when he was sidelined?

I personally am very frustrated with Sox beat reporters. You raise good questions, but those questions are never asked by reporters. They are too busy wasting column inches on players being pulled from games for not hustling.


The game a couple weeks ago when Castillo was pulled for not running a ball out, there were probably a dozen interesting things from that game that I would have liked to have asked Renteria about. What did the beats ask about? Castillo being yanked.


There's really nothing to say about that. Everyone knows Renteria's rule. Castillo broke the rule. End of story. Why are they writing about that when there's 1,000 more interesting things worth discussing with this team and the organization as a whole?
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  #74  
Old 06-02-2018, 09:03 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is online now
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I personally am very frustrated with Sox beat reporters. You raise good questions, but those questions are never asked by reporters. They are too busy wasting column inches on players being pulled from games for not hustling.


The game a couple weeks ago when Castillo was pulled for not running a ball out, there were probably a dozen interesting things from that game that I would have liked to have asked Renteria about. What did the beats ask about? Castillo being yanked.


There's really nothing to say about that. Everyone knows Renteria's rule. Castillo broke the rule. End of story. Why are they writing about that when there's 1,000 more interesting things worth discussing with this team and the organization as a whole?
Do you have subscription to The Athletic? I think the Sox beat reporter there does a fantastic job although he is often covering the Sox prospects in the minors so he doesn't cover every single game at the major league level.
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  #75  
Old 06-02-2018, 09:33 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Do you have subscription to The Athletic? I think the Sox beat reporter there does a fantastic job although he is often covering the Sox prospects in the minors so he doesn't cover every single game at the major league level.
Fegan? He is a great writer, and he is extremely interactive on social media with his followers.
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