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  #46  
Old 05-03-2018, 07:50 PM
Huisj Huisj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw218 View Post
I posted this in the 2018 game thread and thought it fits here as well:



Don't forget, Jack McDowell was a late season call-up in 1987 and pitched the entire season in the rotation in 1988 before spending the entire 1989 season in the minors. We all know how good a pitcher that McDowell turned out to be. I'm not saying that Giolito is the 2nd coming of Jack McDowell, but to give him time to learn how to pitch.
Also don’t forget Roy Halladay and his 10+ ERA in 2000 after nearly throwing s no-hitter at the end of ‘98 and looking pretty good during parts of ‘99.

Wilson Alvarez pitching lousy out of the bullpen in ‘92 comes to mind too.
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  #47  
Old 05-03-2018, 10:25 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Coop can fix him.
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  #48  
Old 05-08-2018, 06:40 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
https://theathletic.com/346570/2018/...in-birmingham/

For those of you who do not have an Athletic sub and are locked behind a paywall, I am sorry. I cannot recommend subbing enough, though; worth every penny.

For those that do have an Athletic sub, do you ever get this sneaking suspicion that the Sox may have found the RHP version of Mark Buehrle? Doesn't throw fast, but gets you to ground out all the time? And do you have no problem with this like I do?

I get the feeling they may have won 2/3rds of the Eaton trade, easy. Eaton's good, but is he worth 2 if not 3 MLB pitchers? Provided in what I'm seeing with Basabe, Adolfo, and other "throw-ins" in these trades and lower-round draft picks, I get a little bit o' hope.
I assume that Giolito is the one of the three you aren't optimistic about?

I don't have a subscription, but I do like what I have seen stats-wise of Dunning so far.
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  #49  
Old 05-08-2018, 08:25 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
I assume that Giolito is the one of the three you aren't optimistic about?

I don't have a subscription, but I do like what I have seen stats-wise of Dunning so far.
Giolito is the one I'm not so high on, yeah.
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Last edited by DonnieDarko; 05-09-2018 at 06:16 AM.
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  #50  
Old 05-08-2018, 09:50 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
Giolito is the one I'm not so high on, no.
I agree with you. Nothing to be optimistic about.
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  #51  
Old 05-08-2018, 10:10 PM
Luis11 Luis11 is offline
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Giolito like Fullmer is another 4th or 5th starter. He was suppose to throw 95-97mph; his fastball sits around 91-92 mph. Not quite the pitcher I thought we were getting.
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  #52  
Old 05-08-2018, 10:33 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis11 View Post
Giolito like Fullmer is another 4th or 5th starter. He was suppose to throw 95-97mph; his fastball sits around 91-92 mph. Not quite the pitcher I thought we were getting.
The Sox knew they weren't getting the guy that used to be the number 1 prospect in baseball. He was messed up and lost a lot of velocity before the trade, that's why he was available.

Still it's really, really early to be this down on Giolito. He looked pretty good at the end of last year and spring training this year. He was cruising into the 6th his last outing too vs the Cards. I still think he has a good chance of being a number 3 type.
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  #53  
Old 05-09-2018, 12:13 AM
shes shes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis11 View Post
Giolito like Fullmer is another 4th or 5th starter. He was suppose to throw 95-97mph; his fastball sits around 91-92 mph. Not quite the pitcher I thought we were getting.
4th or 5th starter is being kind. I'd bet a week's wages those two end up in the bullpen when the Sox are ready to contend again. Choose 5 of Rodon, Lopez, Kopech, Cease, Dunning, and Hansen -- I think that's the future rotation.
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  #54  
Old 05-09-2018, 01:33 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Giolito's 23 years old and has 20 career starts at the MLB level. His off-speed stuff, when he can control it, makes up for any loss in velocity.

It is way premature, IMO, to predict a ceiling of back of the rotation. Same for Fulmer. Both of these guys are learning on the job and the results are going to be mixed.

I hope that when Kopech comes up and inevitably struggles for stretches, the fans show him a little patience.
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  #55  
Old 05-09-2018, 03:50 PM
shes shes is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Giolito's 23 years old and has 20 career starts at the MLB level. His off-speed stuff, when he can control it, makes up for any loss in velocity.

It is way premature, IMO, to predict a ceiling of back of the rotation. Same for Fulmer. Both of these guys are learning on the job and the results are going to be mixed.

I hope that when Kopech comes up and inevitably struggles for stretches, the fans show him a little patience.
If Kopech is beyond awful for a full 18 months and loses 8 mph off his fastball, it'll be warranted.
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  #56  
Old 05-09-2018, 04:56 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by shes View Post
If Kopech is beyond awful for a full 18 months and loses 8 mph off his fastball, it'll be warranted.
I hope you're not suggesting that Giolito has been awful for 18 months. He hasn't even been [consistently] awful for 18 days. Not great, but not awful.

I do wonder what the story is with his velocity or lack thereof. He was reportedly hitting 95 in ST. At the moment, his average 4-seamer is just over 91 and almost a full MPH slower than league average. Absent an injury, 3-4 MPH is a pretty huge drop. His velocity is also down from '17 when it was closer to 93. Watching him pitch, he's definitely not a max. effort guy. I wonder if he isn't so focused on location that he's not really uncorking his fastball.

Usually, when you see that type of drop, it's with older pitchers but he's not yet in his prime so it's definitely weird.
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  #57  
Old 05-09-2018, 11:23 PM
shes shes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
I hope you're not suggesting that Giolito has been awful for 18 months. He hasn't even been [consistently] awful for 18 days. Not great, but not awful.

I do wonder what the story is with his velocity or lack thereof. He was reportedly hitting 95 in ST. At the moment, his average 4-seamer is just over 91 and almost a full MPH slower than league average. Absent an injury, 3-4 MPH is a pretty huge drop. His velocity is also down from '17 when it was closer to 93. Watching him pitch, he's definitely not a max. effort guy. I wonder if he isn't so focused on location that he's not really uncorking his fastball.

Usually, when you see that type of drop, it's with older pitchers but he's not yet in his prime so it's definitely weird.
I meant awful in terms of a blanket assessment of his overall performance in that time frame. Sure, he's looked good here and there, but on the whole you can't grade him higher than a D, either by the stats or your eyes. The guy can't command a BP fastball and has no idea how to find the release point on his secondary offerings, including his supposed signature pitch. This has been true for the last year and a half, barring a start here and there. He is an absolute mess, and this has been apparent to anyone watching closely since the Nats began to sour on him.
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  #58  
Old 05-10-2018, 03:50 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shes View Post
If Kopech is beyond awful for a full 18 months and loses 8 mph off his fastball, it'll be warranted.

I don't know about the eighteen months stuff but maybe Gio never had that additional 8 mph.
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  #59  
Old 05-10-2018, 08:07 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shes View Post
I meant awful in terms of a blanket assessment of his overall performance in that time frame. Sure, he's looked good here and there, but on the whole you can't grade him higher than a D, either by the stats or your eyes. The guy can't command a BP fastball and has no idea how to find the release point on his secondary offerings, including his supposed signature pitch. This has been true for the last year and a half, barring a start here and there. He is an absolute mess, and this has been apparent to anyone watching closely since the Nats began to sour on him.
He had a 2.38 ERA over 7 starts after being called up last season. Before that, he had mostly good starts in AAA going back to July. That's hardly "here and there" and doesn't quality as "beyond awful for a full 18 months."

I don't deny his struggles are very concerning. But, come on - let's not exaggerate things here.
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  #60  
Old 05-10-2018, 09:27 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
I do wonder what the story is with his velocity or lack thereof. He was reportedly hitting 95 in ST. At the moment, his average 4-seamer is just over 91 and almost a full MPH slower than league average.
Actually his average 4 seam FB has been 92 this season, just about league average. It was well known that he had lost velocity going into 2017, this is not a revelation.
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