White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-23-2019, 06:22 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,015
Default 2020 payroll after Grandal and Abreu signings

Quick estimate: Calling the league minimum $600K, but I think it will be under

Grandal $18.25
McCann $4.9? Arb 3 projected
Collins $600K?

3 Catchers $24.75

Abreu $16
Yolmer $6.2? Arb 3 projected
Moncada $600K?
TA $4
Leury $4? Arb 3 projected
Mendick/Madrigal $600K?

6 Infielders $31.4

Eloy $2.333
Engel $600K?
Robert $600K?

3 Outfielders $3.533

Lopez $600K?
Giolito $600K?
Cease $600K?
Rodon $4.5? Arb 2 projected
Kopech $600K?

5 Starters $6.9

Colome $10.3 Arb 3 projected
Herrera $8.5
Marshall $1.3 Arb 1 projected
Bummer $600K?
Fry $600K?
Cordero $600K?

6 Relievers $21.9

Total if all Arb players are retained: ~$87-88 million

This leaves 1 starter needed (2 if Kopech is in the bullpen or on the IL to start the season), 1 outfielder needed, and 2 relievers needed (1 if Kopech starts the season in the bullpen) to field a 26-man roster.

I feel pretty sure that Marshall, McCann, and Colome will all be on the team. Yolmer at $6.2, Leury at $4, and Rodon at $4.5 (if Bryant wins his grievance) represent $14.7 that may be able to be freed up from that total.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and let’s fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:41 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,544
Default

Thanks for taking the time to sum up the payroll commitments. I had wondered where we stood as of today after the Grandal and Abreu contracts. I'd imagine that they won't be paying Yolmer and Leury a total of ~$10M and that at least one of them will be non-tendered.

It'll be interesting to see how this tally changes as the arbitration players get contracts and we add at least 1 SP, 1 RF, etc.

How does Bryant's grievance affect Rodon's pay status?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-23-2019, 10:35 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,015
Default

Rodon is in a similar service time situation as Bryant. The White Sox called him up 4 days after he could accrue a full year of service. He is at 4.168 of service, and Bryant is at 4.171 of service as he awaits the ruling. If that 171 becomes a full year, I feel pretty sure that Rodon’s 168 would also become a full year, meaning he qualifies for free agency after 2020 instead of after 2021. If that happens, there is no good reason whatsoever to tender him at $4.5 million. Let him rehab on someone else’s dime.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:01 AM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 59,015
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Rodon is in a similar service time situation as Bryant. The White Sox called him up 4 days after he could accrue a full year of service. He is at 4.168 of service, and Bryant is at 4.171 of service as he awaits the ruling. If that 171 becomes a full year, I feel pretty sure that Rodon’s 168 would also become a full year, meaning he qualifies for free agency after 2020 instead of after 2021. If that happens, there is no good reason whatsoever to tender him at $4.5 million. Let him rehab on someone else’s dime.
Or offer him a lowball offer for the next 3-4 years and see what he says. Say 3 years $30M including this year when he's rehabbing. He probably won't bite, but might as well give it a shot.
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-24-2019, 10:46 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 15,874
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Thanks for breaking that down, Mahoney. Still plenty of room.
If the Sox accomplish what we hope they do this off-season, an effective Rodon could be the Cherry on top.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:48 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Or offer him a lowball offer for the next 3-4 years and see what he says. Say 3 years $30M including this year when he's rehabbing. He probably won't bite, but might as well give it a shot.
No thanks. I have never been more disappointed in a White Sox prospect than I have been in Carlos Rodon.

At this rate, assume that $15 million of that $30 million would be spent for time on the IL. That makes Rodon a $20 million AAV pitcher. There are lots of durable, productive pitchers who can be paid that kind of money.

I’m beyond done with Carlos Rodon. Let him be injured and inconsistent someplace else. If Bryant loses his grievance, I guess we can tender him and see what happens down the road, but if Bryant wins, just non-tender him.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-27-2019, 11:23 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
No thanks. I have never been more disappointed in a White Sox prospect than I have been in Carlos Rodon.

At this rate, assume that $15 million of that $30 million would be spent for time on the IL. That makes Rodon a $20 million AAV pitcher. There are lots of durable, productive pitchers who can be paid that kind of money.

I’m beyond done with Carlos Rodon. Let him be injured and inconsistent someplace else. If Bryant loses his grievance, I guess we can tender him and see what happens down the road, but if Bryant wins, just non-tender him.
Absolutely no reason to just cut Rodon loose, he's not losing that extra year of control. He had a really nice run in 2018 of 2 straight months of below 2 ERA with some plus stuff. His FB runs up to 98 and has a top 3 lefty slider in the game maybe. Hopefully he can come back in Aug. and knock the rust off to be 100% by opening day 2021.

The Sox are going to need pitchers with upside within the next few seasons for sure if they want to make a deep playoff run, especially if they go get Zack Wheeler. I can see them going the Dodgers route with being extremely deep with injury prone/history guys but ones with big upside. They have Kershaw, Ryu, Hill, Urias, Stripling, Buehler, etc with other young guns in AAA like May and Gonsolin. The Sox in 2021 specifically can have then Giolito, Wheeler?, Cease, Kopech, Rodon, Lopez, Dunning, Stiever, Flores, SP FA/trade....which would have huge upside there and plenty of depth to get through a full season and October.

Last edited by ChiSoxNationPres; 11-27-2019 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2019, 04:45 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Absolutely no reason to just cut Rodon loose, he's not losing that extra year of control. He had a really nice run in 2018 of 2 straight months of below 2 ERA with some plus stuff. His FB runs up to 98 and has a top 3 lefty slider in the game maybe. Hopefully he can come back in Aug. and knock the rust off to be 100% by opening day 2021.

The Sox are going to need pitchers with upside within the next few seasons for sure if they want to make a deep playoff run, especially if they go get Zack Wheeler. I can see them going the Dodgers route with being extremely deep with injury prone/history guys but ones with big upside. They have Kershaw, Ryu, Hill, Urias, Stripling, Buehler, etc with other young guns in AAA like May and Gonsolin. The Sox in 2021 specifically can have then Giolito, Wheeler?, Cease, Kopech, Rodon, Lopez, Dunning, Stiever, Flores, SP FA/trade....which would have huge upside there and plenty of depth to get through a full season and October.
I said I wanted to wait to see what happens with Bryant’s grievance. If Bryant wins, Rodon undoubtedly would win as well.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:11 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,370
Default

Rodon's a bit of a wildcard going forward anyway. I wonder if it makes sense to only use him as a reliever going forward. With that slider, he could be very effective.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:29 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I said I wanted to wait to see what happens with Bryant’s grievance. If Bryant wins, Rodon undoubtedly would win as well.
Undoubtedly? Come on man, he literally pitched 24.2 innings total in the minors before 2015 with only 12 IP above the A+ level. No clue where you are getting this unfounded confidence that this would even be filed as a grievance, let alone win easily if Bryant's does.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:37 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Rodon's a bit of a wildcard going forward anyway. I wonder if it makes sense to only use him as a reliever going forward. With that slider, he could be very effective.
He has that plus plus slider, but he just doesn't profile well as a reliever. Rodon doesn't strikeout nearly as many hitters as you would expect, his game has been more about limiting hits against him. Also I think starting is more conducive for success for him because it allows more time for him to get settled in. He really doesn't have the best control with his FB, needs time to find his release point a lot of times.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-27-2019, 05:50 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Undoubtedly? Come on man, he literally pitched 24.2 innings total in the minors before 2015 with only 12 IP above the A+ level. No clue where you are getting this unfounded confidence that this would even be filed as a grievance, let alone win easily if Bryant's does.
If 1.171 wins a manipulation case, then 1.168 wins the same case.

The same exact argument can be used. “How did Rodon possibly gain anything in those 24 minor league innings that suddenly made a difference in his readiness to pitch in the majors?”
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-27-2019, 06:03 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If 1.171 wins a manipulation case, then 1.168 wins the same case.

The same exact argument can be used. “How did Rodon possibly gain anything in those 24 minor league innings that suddenly made a difference in his readiness to pitch in the majors?”
But Bryant had an entire year more seasoning in the minors, these are not that similar of cases. That's why you are probably the only one talking about it.

The Sox did him a favor bringing him up at all in 2015, could have had him receive a normal path to the majors like 99% of other prospects.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-27-2019, 06:16 PM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
Co-Winner WSI 2018 NFL Pick'em Contest
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,034
Default

Didn't the Sox call up Rodon earlier than many expected? Similar to Sale but a little behind his schedule.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-27-2019, 06:32 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 59,015
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosiersoxfan View Post
Didn't the Sox call up Rodon earlier than many expected? Similar to Sale but a little behind his schedule.
I think the argument is that regardless of whether he made the majors sooner than expected or not the Sox still manipulated the service time when they called him up.

Whether that argument will win in court I don't know. It's all just waiting on the Bryant grievance to be ruled on anyway..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.