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  #1  
Old 07-05-2017, 05:04 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Default The Next Trade [Speculation Only Please]

So here we are at almost the All Star break and I still haven't seen the next step in this rebuild, I'm thinking something is going to happen trade wise next week but who knows with our wonderful brain trust.

BTW 2 Red Sox fans who are golf cronies of mine are driving me nuts asking how we could ever trade Sale, my only retort is wait until he takes the scissors to some ugly BoSox uni's from the 70s.
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Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 07-05-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2017, 05:24 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL
So here we are at almost the All Star break and I still haven't seen the next step in this rebuild, I'm thinking something is going to happen trade wise next week but who knows with our wonderful brain trust.

BTW 2 Red Sox fans who are golf cronies of mine are driving me nuts asking how we could ever trade Sale, my only retort is wait until he takes the scissors to some ugly BoSox uni's from the 70s.
There is still a month left to make deals, and the teams on the fringes of playoff contention are going to use up every day of that month. They want as large a sample size as possible before they decide how much of their future (if any) they are willing to sacrifice to improve their fortunes this season.

Plus, there is also the risk of injury; any teams that suffer devastating injuries between now and the deadline may decide that moves to improve this season are no longer worth the cost. The opposite also may happen; a team that suffers a devastating injury may want to plug that hole to the greatest extent possible and pay a decent cost for the privilege.
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2017, 06:41 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
There is still a month left to make deals, and the teams on the fringes of playoff contention are going to use up every day of that month. They want as large a sample size as possible before they decide how much of their future (if any) they are willing to sacrifice to improve their fortunes this season.
That's logical for the teams that pretty much know they'll make the playoffs...which, unfortunately is the teams that seem to be most willing and able to buy (Bos, Hou, LaD, Wash).
But teams that don't know they will make the playoffs, lose a month of production by waiting...unfortunately, some of those teams don't look like buyers: KC, TB, Milw
There are just a few teams that aren't assured of the playoffs and may buy: Cle, Cubs, Az, Colo. NYY Those teams shouldn't wait, if they are buying.
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  #4  
Old 07-05-2017, 06:45 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That's logical for the teams that pretty much know they'll make the playoffs...which, unfortunately is the teams that seem to be most willing and able to buy (Bos, Hou, LaD, Wash).
But teams that don't know they will make the playoffs, lose a month of production by waiting...unfortunately, some of those teams don't look like buyers: KC, TB, Milw, NYY.
There are just a few teams that aren't assured of the playoffs and may buy: Cle, Cubs, Az, Colo. Those teams shouldn't wait, if they are buying.
Agree, if the idea is to win as many games as possible and if there are players available that will help, you pull the trigger now instead of waiting until the last minute
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2017, 07:28 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That's logical for the teams that pretty much know they'll make the playoffs...which, unfortunately is the teams that seem to be most willing and able to buy (Bos, Hou, LaD, Wash).
But teams that don't know they will make the playoffs, lose a month of production by waiting...unfortunately, some of those teams don't look like buyers: KC, TB, Milw
There are just a few teams that aren't assured of the playoffs and may buy: Cle, Cubs, Az, Colo. NYY Those teams shouldn't wait, if they are buying.
Sure work the phones but with so many variable in play how can anyone say the time is now to pull the trigger?
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2017, 08:16 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Sure work the phones but with so many variable in play how can anyone say the time is now to pull the trigger?
You never know for sure. But teams make trades in early July and even June (as our FO well knows.....). If you like the deal, take it.
It doesn't matter from the Sox perspective when they make a trade, as long as they do make trades for the guys with expiring contracts plus D Rob.

Last edited by Tragg; 07-05-2017 at 08:29 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:16 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
You never know for sure. But teams make trades in early July and even June (as our FO well knows.....). If you like the deal, take it.
It doesn't matter from the Sox perspective when they make a trade, as long as they do make trades for the guys with expiring contracts plus D Rob.
Which is rare. If there is a move to be made the team will make the move. The only reason I see for being impatient right now is due to not trusting that this is a rebuild.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2017, 05:46 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
BTW 2 Red Sox fans who are golf cronies of mine are driving me nuts asking how we could ever trade Sale, my only retort is wait until he takes the scissors to some ugly BoSox uni's from the 70s.
The answer to the question is that there was no way to build a winner around the core players before they reached free agency. Sale's clubhouse persona had very little to do with it...except that the relationship was strained enough that they could be sure he wouldn't agree to another extension.
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2017, 06:08 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
The answer to the question is that there was no way to build a winner around the core players before they reached free agency. Sale's clubhouse persona had very little to do with it...except that the relationship was strained enough that they could be sure he wouldn't agree to another extension.
That's an oversimplification. If the GM used the strained relationship as justification to trade Sale, the strained relationship had a lot to do with the GM,

Meanwhile, he didn't shop Sale to to demand the best price anywhere near to the extent that he has allegedly shopped Quintana.

And Eaton, of course, was under team control though 2021.

There hasn't been a trade of any rebuild significance since Eaton. Even without the the full-blown trade-your-best-controllable-players-rebuild-mentality, you would expect the White Sox to trade pending free agents to go before the deadline if they are out of the race.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2017, 07:16 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
That's an oversimplification. If the GM used the strained relationship as justification to trade Sale, the strained relationship had a lot to do with the GM,

Meanwhile, he didn't shop Sale to to demand the best price anywhere near to the extent that he has allegedly shopped Quintana.
Can you cite a source to confirm what you've stated?
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2017, 08:33 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Can you cite a source to confirm what you've stated?
Is a source needed for something you don't want to believe but the assumption that Sale's relationship was strained and wouldn't have signed an extension should be a presumptive fact?

If Sale's relationship was strained, perhaps because he believed the White Sox are more interested in selling souvenir jerseys than building a winning team, are you suggesting a source is needed to show that Rick Hahn had nothing to do with the White Sox not building a winning team?

Hahn has been the White Sox GM since the 2012 World Series. He has his fingerprints all over the White Sox not being able to build a winning team this decade. Does anyone who finds him blameless for not building a winning team during his tenure need to cite a source?

If you are going to take as presumptive evidence that Sale was alienated by the team and wouldn't have signed an extension, you also have to presume that the general manager for the last four seasons of Sale's tenure with the White Sox bears some of the responsibility for the alienation.

I don't think anyone who is arguing that it has taken so long for Quintana to be traded because Hahn is looking for the right deal could argue that that Sale was shopped to the same extent. Sale was traded on the third day of the winter meetings, kicking off a flurry of one additional offseason rebuilding trade.

Does your faith in Rick Hahn require a confirmation source?
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2017, 05:02 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Is a source needed for something you don't want to believe but the assumption that Sale's relationship was strained and wouldn't have signed an extension should be a presumptive fact?

If Sale's relationship was strained, perhaps because he believed the White Sox are more interested in selling souvenir jerseys than building a winning team, are you suggesting a source is needed to show that Rick Hahn had nothing to do with the White Sox not building a winning team?

Hahn has been the White Sox GM since the 2012 World Series. He has his fingerprints all over the White Sox not being able to build a winning team this decade. Does anyone who finds him blameless for not building a winning team during his tenure need to cite a source?

If you are going to take as presumptive evidence that Sale was alienated by the team and wouldn't have signed an extension, you also have to presume that the general manager for the last four seasons of Sale's tenure with the White Sox bears some of the responsibility for the alienation.

I don't think anyone who is arguing that it has taken so long for Quintana to be traded because Hahn is looking for the right deal could argue that that Sale was shopped to the same extent. Sale was traded on the third day of the winter meetings, kicking off a flurry of one additional offseason rebuilding trade.

Does your faith in Rick Hahn require a confirmation source?
I asked for a source because you imply Sale was not shopped enough but the price on Q was prohibitive. I am just wondering what Sale should have returned as compared to what Q could have returned.
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:19 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Is a source needed for something you don't want to believe but the assumption that Sale's relationship was strained and wouldn't have signed an extension should be a presumptive fact?

If Sale's relationship was strained, perhaps because he believed the White Sox are more interested in selling souvenir jerseys than building a winning team, are you suggesting a source is needed to show that Rick Hahn had nothing to do with the White Sox not building a winning team?

Hahn has been the White Sox GM since the 2012 World Series. He has his fingerprints all over the White Sox not being able to build a winning team this decade. Does anyone who finds him blameless for not building a winning team during his tenure need to cite a source?

If you are going to take as presumptive evidence that Sale was alienated by the team and wouldn't have signed an extension, you also have to presume that the general manager for the last four seasons of Sale's tenure with the White Sox bears some of the responsibility for the alienation.

I don't think anyone who is arguing that it has taken so long for Quintana to be traded because Hahn is looking for the right deal could argue that that Sale was shopped to the same extent. Sale was traded on the third day of the winter meetings, kicking off a flurry of one additional offseason rebuilding trade.

Does your faith in Rick Hahn require a confirmation source?
You are ignoring the role the Executive VP played in all of this the last few years which I believe led to the strained relationship between Sale and the FO. I believe that is more of a factor than anything Hahn might have done.
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:31 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Is a source needed for something you don't want to believe but the assumption that Sale's relationship was strained and wouldn't have signed an extension should be a presumptive fact?

If Sale's relationship was strained, perhaps because he believed the White Sox are more interested in selling souvenir jerseys than building a winning team, are you suggesting a source is needed to show that Rick Hahn had nothing to do with the White Sox not building a winning team?

Hahn has been the White Sox GM since the 2012 World Series. He has his fingerprints all over the White Sox not being able to build a winning team this decade. Does anyone who finds him blameless for not building a winning team during his tenure need to cite a source?

If you are going to take as presumptive evidence that Sale was alienated by the team and wouldn't have signed an extension, you also have to presume that the general manager for the last four seasons of Sale's tenure with the White Sox bears some of the responsibility for the alienation.


Does your faith in Rick Hahn require a confirmation source?
With even the slightest ability to read between the lines when listening to Hahn the last several years, it was clear that if it was really up to him, he would have started this rebuild much earlier.

And as far as not getting value for Sale, didn't we pull the top overall prospect in baseball (which likely led to the Robert signing) plus a guy who is looking like a future ace, plus more?
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2017, 09:05 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
BTW 2 Red Sox fans who are golf cronies of mine are driving me nuts asking how we could ever trade Sale, my only retort is wait until he takes the scissors to some ugly BoSox uni's from the 70s.
Sale is very very good. But Sale being very very good wasn't doing anything for us. If everything works out, we will have a few players that are some level of good to very good, for a larger number of years, at a time when hopefully they will do something for us. It's a gamble, sure, but it doesn't seem like THAT difficult of a thing to understand.
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