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  #61  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:31 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Why does it have to be team-friendly?
I think the implication is (and if I'm wrong Mohoney can correct me) the White Sox save for Albert Belle have never been in the situation where they've handed out very high contract offers. That simply isn't the organizations philosophy for better or for worse when it comes to free agents.

Now they have given out some nice deals to their own players before they hit the FA market which to me, is a different situation.
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  #62  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:35 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by asindc
Why does it have to be team-friendly?
Isn’t that what people are implying with catch-phrases like “there may be more important things to Abreu than money” and “Abreu’s comfort level may be higher here” and “Cuban Connection?”
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  #63  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:57 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Remember when Mark Buehrle hit free agency after 2011? He actually went so far as to give the team a chance to retain him, and they flat-out told him to take Miami’s offer.

I can’t help but think that the days of Reinsdorf and Co. succumbing to their perpetual case of sticker shock will return with a vengeance when the time comes to ante up for Abreu (or any other big-ticket free agent, for that matter).

Go ahead and prove me wrong, Sox brass. It would be the best-tasting crow I ever ate.
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  #64  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:58 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Isn’t that what people are implying with catch-phrases like “there may be more important things to Abreu than money” and “Abreu’s comfort level may be higher here” and “Cuban Connection?”
Ok, understood. My interest in keeping him is not predicated on getting him at a discount beyond his current contract. It is rare that a rebuilding team does it exclusively through the farm system, so at some point the Sox are going to have to sign a FA, probably a pricy one. Rather than focusing solely on those on the outside of the organization, why shouldn’t the Sox also consider Abreu for their future plans, just like several other teams most likely are?
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  #65  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:00 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Remember when Mark Buehrle hit free agency after 2011? He actually went so far as to give the team a chance to retain him, and they flat-out told him to take Miami’s offer.

I can’t help but think that the days of Reinsdorf and Co. succumbing to their perpetual case of sticker shock will return with a vengeance when the time comes to ante up for Abreu (or any other big-ticket free agent, for that matter).

Go ahead and prove me wrong, Sox brass. It would be the best-tasting crow I ever ate.
If you are right about that (historically, there is little reason to think you are not), then the rebuild might be left incomplete when the time comes. One way or another, they are going to have to spend money to complete the process.
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  #66  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:32 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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If you are right about that (historically, there is little reason to think you are not), then the rebuild might be left incomplete when the time comes. One way or another, they are going to have to spend money to complete the process.
Very true...the question is will they? And even if they do will anyone take it considering the period since 2007, rebuild promise or not?
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  #67  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:11 AM
insp insp is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I think the implication is (and if I'm wrong Mohoney can correct me) the White Sox save for Albert Belle have never been in the situation where they've handed out very high contract offers. That simply isn't the organizations philosophy for better or for worse when it comes to free agents.

Now they have given out some nice deals to their own players before they hit the FA market which to me, is a different situation.
There is just so much money available. You have to spend it on as many players as are needed. You just simply can't squander it all on just one player.
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  #68  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:30 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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There is just so much money available. You have to spend it on as many players as are needed. You just simply can't squander it all on just one player.
Generally I agree but as always what an owner says about having money to spend and the reality of the situation are often very, very different. I go back to the labor impasse of 1994 when the owners allowed their books to be looked at by a noted Stanford economist and he destroyed their contention that three-quarters of the teams were losing money. The MLBPA used it in their case before the Federal judge and the owners vowed to never let anyone look at their books again.

And there are times when if that one player you honestly think makes a sizable difference you have to take the risk. Playing it safe often puts you in the situation the Sox have basically been in for the past 11 years, nowhere.

There's also the old adge, "to make money you have to spend money..."

But as I wrote even if the Sox offer it, given everything else and their recent history, will anybody take it? Especially if said player wants to win now.
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  #69  
Old 06-16-2018, 05:34 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Generally I agree but as always what an owner says about having money to spend and the reality of the situation are often very, very different. I go back to the labor impasse of 1994 when the owners allowed their books to be looked at by a noted Stanford economist and he destroyed their contention that three-quarters of the teams were losing money. The MLBPA used it in their case before the Federal judge and the owners vowed to never let anyone look at their books again.

And there are times when if that one player you honestly think makes a sizable difference you have to take the risk. Playing it safe often puts you in the situation the Sox have basically been in for the past 11 years, nowhere.
The issue of having money and spending it wisely are two completely different matters.



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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
There's also the old adge, "to make money you have to spend money..."
That old bromide should be retired.



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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
But as I wrote even if the Sox offer it, given everything else and their recent history, will anybody take it? Especially if said player wants to win now.
Why not? If the Blackhawks could do it why not the Whitesox?
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  #70  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:00 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
The issue of having money and spending it wisely are two completely different matters.





That old bromide should be retired.





Why not? If the Blackhawks could do it why not the Whitesox?
Some valid points. Only time will tell what happens. And a major part of the Hawks rebuild was being able to draft two kids named Toews and Kane.

Will the Sox (or have the Sox) already drafted (or traded for) two guys of that caliber yet? Again, we'll see.
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  #71  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:06 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz
Why not? If the Blackhawks could do it why not the Whitesox?
If MLB’s owners ever succeed in installing a salary cap, maybe the White Sox would see their fortunes change regarding free agents.
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  #72  
Old 06-16-2018, 01:04 PM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Remember when Mark Buehrle hit free agency after 2011? He actually went so far as to give the team a chance to retain him, and they flat-out told him to take Miami’s offer.

I can’t help but think that the days of Reinsdorf and Co. succumbing to their perpetual case of sticker shock will return with a vengeance when the time comes to ante up for Abreu (or any other big-ticket free agent, for that matter).

Go ahead and prove me wrong, Sox brass. It would be the best-tasting crow I ever ate.
Mark Buehrle had to be worth a few more wins than the Humber/Liriano/etc 5th starters we threw out there in 2012, too. We probably could have won the division, and it would have been pretty nice to win one more division with that core.

No chance they did much else, though and Buehrle wouldn't have made much of a difference 2013-2016.
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