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  #196  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:11 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Wait, are people already putting Madrigal on bustwatch?
He did end up striking out five times. Five! If he can't handle the Carolina League he will easily break Dunn's record.
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  #197  
Old 10-13-2018, 10:00 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica
If the Sox end up moving Moncada to third, they would have been better off having him learn the position in 2018, and leaving Sanchez at second.
No. Giving Moncada the reps at the higher-priority position was the right move. Developing Moncada was more important than playing Yolmer Sanchez at 2B and getting a short-term defensive advantage.
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  #198  
Old 10-13-2018, 12:04 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
No. Giving Moncada the reps at the higher-priority position was the right move. Developing Moncada was more important than playing Yolmer Sanchez at 2B and getting a short-term defensive advantage.
Not if he is going to be moved to third. He could have still developed as a hitter (in theory; it doesn't appear that he actually did) while playing his future position.

We got a better read on his defense at second, and it was passable. I don't think he will necessarily be passable at third. If Madrigal is the better second baseman and they can get enough power from the rest of the lineup, Moncada could become attractive trade bait.
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  #199  
Old 10-13-2018, 12:14 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Not if he is going to be moved to third. He could have still developed as a hitter (in theory; it doesn't appear that he actually did) while playing his future position.

We got a better read on his defense at second, and it was passable. I don't think he will necessarily be passable at third. If Madrigal is the better second baseman and they can get enough power from the rest of the lineup, Moncada could become attractive trade bait.
And if Moncada develops and the Sox sign or develop one of their other 3B options Madrigal does.

Personally I want to see another year at 2B for Moncada. Heís got sick skills and showed a lot of growth the second half.
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  #200  
Old 10-13-2018, 12:52 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica
Not if he is going to be moved to third. He could have still developed as a hitter (in theory; it doesn't appear that he actually did) while playing his future position.
This only works if the team knows with absolute certainty that Madrigal wonít flame out as a prospect. That type of absolute certainty doesnít exist.
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  #201  
Old 10-13-2018, 01:47 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
And if Moncada develops and the Sox sign or develop one of their other 3B options Madrigal does.

Personally I want to see another year at 2B for Moncada. Heís got sick skills and showed a lot of growth the second half.
I agree. If they both develop, the Sox have a nice problem. No way should they sell low on either.
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  #202  
Old 10-13-2018, 01:56 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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This only works if the team knows with absolute certainty that Madrigal won’t flame out as a prospect. That type of absolute certainty doesn’t exist.
You wrote "Moncada/Anderson/Madrigal 3B-to-2B would be the best possible defensive alignment going forward."

I'm saying the Sox looked at Moncada, and decided he was a second baseman, even though third base was a bigger need at the time. This was before Madrigal.

He's hardly played any third base in his life and the Red Sox, who needed a 3B, didn't like his work there.

They will keep him at second unless Madrigal forces the issue.

You seem to be fearful of the idea that trading Moncada in a year or two might make more sense than moving him to third.
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  #203  
Old 10-13-2018, 02:09 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica
You wrote "Moncada/Anderson/Madrigal 3B-to-2B would be the best possible defensive alignment going forward."

I'm saying the Sox looked at Moncada, and decided he was a second baseman, even though third base was a bigger need at the time. This was before Madrigal.

He's hardly played any third base in his life and the Red Sox, who needed a 3B, didn't like his work there.

They will keep him at second unless Madrigal forces the issue.

You seem to be fearful of the idea that trading Moncada in a year or two might make more sense than moving him to third.
Iím fearful of throwing all the teamís hard-fought financial flexibility at Manny Machado and having the move blow up in the teamís face, especially when there is a preferable alternative of taking another year or two and developing some more pieces internally.

I said Moncada/Anderson/Madrigal would be preferable because I am only considering players who are already in the organization.

Like you said, they will keep Moncada at 3B until/unless Madrigal forces the issue. When/if that day comes, I have confidence that Moncada will be able to transition to the easier of the two positions. I certainly feel better about that transition than the proposed Anderson transition to CF.
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  #204  
Old 10-13-2018, 02:40 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Iím fearful of throwing all the teamís hard-fought financial flexibility at Manny Machado and having the move blow up in the teamís face, especially when there is a preferable alternative of taking another year or two and developing some more pieces internally.
It would be a very big bet, but someone has to be the veteran cornerstone, and there isn't a better fit this offseason or next.

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When/if that day comes, I have confidence that Moncada will be able to transition to the easier of the two positions. I certainly feel better about that transition than the proposed Anderson transition to CF.
I hope so. I was disappointed in his work at second, even though it's the position he's played all his life. He was just passable. They can certainly afford to give him some reps at third next year, and see.

Anderson? I've never been in favor of moving him to CF. I have no doubt that he could move to third successfully. So I'm also curious to see how Madrigal's reps at short work out.
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  #205  
Old 10-13-2018, 03:29 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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The idea behind a rebuild is to have young players as the talent cornerstones. So they sign a veteran who is a talent cornerstone - great. But they need several.
None of the successful rebuilders signed a veteran cornerstone this early - the Braves already had one, Freeman, so that helps obviously. But after all of this, this org. has only ONE young stud on the horizon. Moncada - maybe, but that case mainly rests on his bona fides as a prospect.
They've got to figure out how to evaluate, draft and develop young talent. And dare I suggest....quickly!
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  #206  
Old 10-13-2018, 03:56 PM
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The idea behind a rebuild is to have young players as the talent cornerstones. So they sign a veteran who is a talent cornerstone - great. But they need several.
None of the successful rebuilders signed a veteran cornerstone this early - the Braves already had one, Freeman, so that helps obviously. But after all of this, this org. has only ONE young stud on the horizon. Moncada - maybe, but that case mainly rests on his bona fides as a prospect.
They've got to figure out how to evaluate, draft and develop young talent. And dare I suggest....quickly!
Eloy isnít considered a young stud? Lopez doesnít have that potential?
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  #207  
Old 10-13-2018, 05:29 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The idea behind a rebuild is to have young players as the talent cornerstones. So they sign a veteran who is a talent cornerstone - great. But they need several.
None of the successful rebuilders signed a veteran cornerstone this early - the Braves already had one, Freeman, so that helps obviously. But after all of this, this org. has only ONE young stud on the horizon. Moncada - maybe, but that case mainly rests on his bona fides as a prospect.
They've got to figure out how to evaluate, draft and develop young talent. And dare I suggest....quickly!
Wait a minute, we're "early" in the rebuild now? You're the one that keeps suggesting we've given Sox management more than enough time to succeed in this rebuild.

So, we're "only" 2 years in when it comes to justifying free agent signings, but it's really been longer than that, the Sox have been given a huge head start, fans are given Hahn a pass, etc. when it comes time to rip on the Sox for their lack of results so far?

Last edited by Hitmen77; 10-13-2018 at 05:37 PM.
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  #208  
Old 10-13-2018, 06:58 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Wait a minute, we're "early" in the rebuild now? You're the one that keeps suggesting we've given Sox management more than enough time to succeed in this rebuild.

So, we're "only" 2 years in when it comes to justifying free agent signings, but it's really been longer than that, the Sox have been given a huge head start, fans are given Hahn a pass, etc. when it comes time to rip on the Sox for their lack of results so far?
Boom, roasted. You win.
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  #209  
Old 10-13-2018, 07:39 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
We got a better read on his defense at second, and it was passable. I don't think he will necessarily be passable at third.

Passable? Talk about grading on a curve.
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  #210  
Old 10-13-2018, 07:40 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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They've got to figure out how to evaluate, draft and develop young talent. And dare I suggest....quickly!
Do I sense panic? :')
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