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  #1  
Old 11-12-2019, 03:51 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Default More Astros Allegations

Allegedly used an electronic sign stealing method in 2017.

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**** this organization.
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2019, 03:53 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Default Astros accused of sign stealing via camera in Minute Maid Park

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/a...n-report-says/

This is CBS sports quoting a lengthy (pay-only) article from The Athletic.

I read the Athletic article and a summary of it is:

- Astros had a camera in Center Field that watched the catcher, and relayed it to Astros employees behind the dugout
- Astros employees would decode the signs, then bang on a trash can when an off-speed/breaking pitch was coming
- batter would hear the banging and not swing
- the White Sox very own Danny Farquhuar noticed this in a late season 2017 game, stepped off the mound, and changed signs. He is quoted in the article
- former Astros pitcher Fiers is the whistleblower, apparently having warned his 2018 Tigers teammates that this was going on
- Astros allegedly did this because they thought other teams were already doing it - they view it as self-defense
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  #3  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:08 PM
JohnTucker0814 JohnTucker0814 is offline
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It was obvious they were stealing signs... now if they were doing it by camera would make things really bad, IMO. If they prove this was happening, then that franchise should have some serious consequences. Forfeit draft picks, forfeit international money, manager should be suspended for 1 year, etc.

If they were legitimately figuring out pitchers tipping pitches, then kudos to them.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:14 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnTucker0814 View Post
It was obvious they were stealing signs... now if they were doing it by camera would make things really bad, IMO. If they prove this was happening, then that franchise should have some serious consequences. Forfeit draft picks, forfeit international money, manager should be suspended for 1 year, etc.

If they were legitimately figuring out pitchers tipping pitches, then kudos to them.
I agree. If they picked on signs without the aid of technology, good for them. If, however, they used tech... throw the book at them.
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:33 PM
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I agree. If they picked on signs without the aid of technology, good for them. If, however, they used tech... throw the book at them.
This...
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  #6  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:50 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Really hate seeing technology used to cheat. Hope HOU pays big time for this. Completely not acceptable in the MLB.

As others have said, stealing signs that coaches signal to players and other coaches is fair game, as are players/coaches picking up on catchers signals or pitchers tipping pitchers.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:19 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Let's remember where this is coming from. Mike Fiers, who was publicly pissed off he was left off the Astros 2017 postseason roster despite a crappy season and who had vented numerous times about the way the organization treated him.

I mean how many times are the Astros going to be accused of this crap? Did they bring their sign stealing tech to Dodger Stadium in the 2017 WS where they won two games? How come they lost all four home games this WS?

Fiers and the A's have been whiny little b*tches for years, everyone from Melvin to their broadcasters have been complaining about everything from sign stealing to the umps being paid by the Houston organization.

Would love to see how this is proved.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:54 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
Let's remember where this is coming from. Mike Fiers, who was publicly pissed off he was left off the Astros 2017 postseason roster despite a crappy season and who had vented numerous times about the way the organization treated him.

I mean how many times are the Astros going to be accused of this crap? Did they bring their sign stealing tech to Dodger Stadium in the 2017 WS where they won two games? How come they lost all four home games this WS?

Fiers and the A's have been whiny little b*tches for years, everyone from Melvin to their broadcasters have been complaining about everything from sign stealing to the umps being paid by the Houston organization.

Would love to see how this is proved.
So Fiers is just making this up? He was on their team, so he knew that was happening. Of course he is going to tell his new team that this was going on when playing the Astros.

This is bush league, and has no place in the MLB. Really bad look for the Astros.

As far as them winning the games in LA in the WS, what is your point? They were/are still a great team, obviously they are capable of winning games without this sort of cheating. Just because they can win either way, doesn't in the least bit excuse them of this or make it obsolete.

Do you realize how much of a difference it makes knowing if a FB or an offspeed pitch is coming? It's a massive advantage.
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2019, 08:40 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
So Fiers is just making this up? He was on their team, so he knew that was happening. Of course he is going to tell his new team that this was going on when playing the Astros.

This is bush league, and has no place in the MLB. Really bad look for the Astros.

As far as them winning the games in LA in the WS, what is your point? They were/are still a great team, obviously they are capable of winning games without this sort of cheating. Just because they can win either way, doesn't in the least bit excuse them of this or make it obsolete.

Do you realize how much of a difference it makes knowing if a FB or an offspeed pitch is coming? It's a massive advantage.
Sorry, I'm not just going to jump on the "they're scum!" bandwagon because Mike Fiers and the always-reliable "anonymous sources" were quoted in a pay article, the author a guy who's an enormous Yankee fan and was posting conspiracy theories throughout the entire postseason this year, ticked off because his team was eliminated a third time by Houston.

Funny too how Fiers is concerned about playing baseball the right way, but he didn't exactly come forward this year when his own teammate was using PEDs and was eventually busted. Not to mention the rumors of his pine tar use during his no-hitters. And why if he was so concerned about jobs being lost did he wait over two years to reveal his "knowledge".

Houston wins/won because of their pitching. Alleged sign stealing didn't hold the Yankees to three runs in four games at Minute Maid in the ALCS. Makes you wonder too if they had this spectacular system set up, why they weren't killing the ball left and right every game.

This year's World Series totally makes this ludricrous anyway. Houston doesn't win a single home game but pounds Washington all three games on the road. They also lost all three home games in the ALCS last year to Boston. I guess what, they turned the cameras off then and put the trash cans away?

Good luck proving this. If all they have is some disgruntled ex-employee and some frustrated other individuals who said they saw something, this isn't going anywhere. If there was something concrete you'd think they'd have been busted before now.

Edit: Oh and one more thing. Here's some stats on the Astros in 2017:

Home: 48-33, 395 runs, OPS .812, OPS+ 110
Road: 53-28, 501 runs, OPS .834, OPS+ 127

If they're cheating, they really, really suck at it.
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2019, 08:46 PM
blurry blurry is offline
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Here's a video breakdown of it with absolute proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2XNW1qHN9w

This is indisputable they cheated.
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2019, 09:12 PM
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On WBBM radio tonight, they played the sound of the Astros' dugout signaling to the batter what pitches Farquhuar was about to deliver with thumps (the number of thumps indicated type of pitch) based on information the CF camera picked up.
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2019, 09:53 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Funny this wasn't mentioned in Astroball: The New Way to Win It All.

In World Series Game 6 this year, the Astros were all over Strasburg in the first. The story is, the pitching coach figured out hat Strasburg was tipping his pitches. Without going back and looking at the pitch-by-pitch log, I don't believe the Astros swung and missed in the first inning. The thing is, the catcher didn't figure it out, which he is supposed to do. The pitching coach didn't figure it out from watching Strasburg pitch. He picked it up from watching Strasburg on the television monitor. It was that subtle, but the Astros were all over it right away. It worked until the National figured out that the Astros figured out what was coming. Obviously, the Astros weren't stealing signs at that point, but the fact that it took a television monitor for the pitching coach to figure out Strasburg was tipping his pitches presents a gray area for gamesmanship. I would like to see all access to television monitors and accounts from television monitors eliminated from the benches during the game, including deciding whether to appeal for review of umpires' calls, but I know that many would disagree.

If this were the NCAA, they could take away the Astros' 2017 title. But if this were the NCAA, they could forfeit games where players tested positive for illegal substances. MLB could, and probably should, suspend Hinch. But it probably doesn't want to fan the flames of scandal. Dealing with what may be a brewing scandal with the Angels may be more than enough for baseball.

It's not like they can just juice the baseballs to make everyone forget.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:57 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
Let's remember where this is coming from. Mike Fiers, who was publicly pissed off he was left off the Astros 2017 postseason roster despite a crappy season and who had vented numerous times about the way the organization treated him.

I mean how many times are the Astros going to be accused of this crap? Did they bring their sign stealing tech to Dodger Stadium in the 2017 WS where they won two games? How come they lost all four home games this WS?

Fiers and the A's have been whiny little b*tches for years, everyone from Melvin to their broadcasters have been complaining about everything from sign stealing to the umps being paid by the Houston organization.

Would love to see how this is proved.
Uhhhh, listen to the audio tape of a game?

Seriously, sign stealing is part of why I love the game, but not mechanically aided.
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:19 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
Uhhhh, listen to the audio tape of a game?

Seriously, sign stealing is part of why I love the game, but not mechanically aided.
Which one? The one pasted in above? Again massive holes get blown in this thing when you look at Houston's home and road scoring in 2017, and how many times they lost at home in the playoffs this year and last year.

Show me real hard evidence they did this or it "aided" them to win the WS and I'll buy it.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:53 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
Which one? The one pasted in above? Again massive holes get blown in this thing when you look at Houston's home and road scoring in 2017, and how many times they lost at home in the playoffs this year and last year.

Show me real hard evidence they did this or it "aided" them to win the WS and I'll buy it.
If some goof is banging a drum only on breaking balls, it's proof enuf for me. Not you? Not my problem. Didn't produce a win every time they tried it? Disproves nothing.
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