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  #31  
Old 11-01-2019, 07:24 AM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
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Giolito had a great season, but has really had just one good season. I hope Giolito continues to be a superior pitcher, but it doesn't always work out that way. Lopez has never had a consistent season. Dunning hasn't made it to the majors. I was hearing the day of the Eaton deal that the White Sox weren't going to be a 90-loss team in 2019.

Nova beat the Astros twice this season, once in a game where the Sox roughed up Cole in Houston and a complete game four-hitter in Chicago in August. Suggesting Giolito would have helped the Nationals in the World Series based on Giolito's win in Houston is really no different from suggesting the Nationals would have dispatched the Astros quicker if they had acquired Nova.

Considering that the Nationals had never won a postseason series until this year, despite drafting Strasburg and Harper in consecutive years and winning the NL East four times between 2012 and 2017, the Eaton deal is looking this October like it worked out for the Nationals. Maybe when Giolito, Lopez or Dunning wins a postseason game for Chicago, we can say the deal worked out for the White Sox.
So if Giolito continues to have seasons like 2019 but doesnít win a postseason game, the trade is a failure? What if the White Sox win the World Series but Giolito doesnít win any games?
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2019, 07:43 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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This isn't rocket science guys.

This is a win win trade where both teams got exactly what they wanted out of it.


You'll have two perspectives on who "really" won...the production crowd and the winning is everything crowd. But the truth is the Sox traded a long term high quality outfielder for an extremely high ceiling guy that panned out. In the end, those are the only pieces that matter and both sides are extremely happy with the outcome.
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  #33  
Old 11-01-2019, 08:46 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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This isn't rocket science guys.

This is a win win trade where both teams got exactly what they wanted out of it.


You'll have two perspectives on who "really" won...the production crowd and the winning is everything crowd. But the truth is the Sox traded a long term high quality outfielder for an extremely high ceiling guy that panned out. In the end, those are the only pieces that matter and both sides are extremely happy with the outcome.
Yup.

Plus, you have to look at the trajectories of the 2 franchises at the time the trade was made. The Nats were trying to do everything possible to win a World Series before Bryce Harper left town (oh the delicious irony of baseball). The White Sox were tearing down and entering a rebuild.

Eatonís production these past 3 years would have been wasted in Chicago. We would have been left with a good outfielder now, but only for another 2 years. Giolito will be here for 4 more years.

If Giolito proves that the 2019 version is the beginning of a trend and not just a career year, whatever Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning do is just icing on the cake.
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2019, 09:00 AM
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Chez Chez is offline
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This isn't rocket science guys.

This is a win win trade where both teams got exactly what they wanted out of it.


You'll have two perspectives on who "really" won...the production crowd and the winning is everything crowd. But the truth is the Sox traded a long term high quality outfielder for an extremely high ceiling guy that panned out. In the end, those are the only pieces that matter and both sides are extremely happy with the outcome.
Thank you. Both teams got what they wanted out of the trade.
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2019, 09:50 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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I don't understand the recent obsession with analyzing who "won" a trade. In theory trades are supposed to be mutually beneficial. If you keep ripping people off they will eventually either stop trading with you, or be replaced with new GMs who are better at talent evaluation.

Regardless, as a White Sox fan who follows the Nationals as a second team, I went from being very excited about the Eaton/Giolito/Lopez trade to being really sad about it for several years. 2019 is the first year things worked out in either Washington or DC regarding this trade.
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2019, 09:57 AM
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Thank you. Both teams got what they wanted out of the trade.

It's probably a good trade for both teams. But if the White Sox with Giolito as their ace are roughly at the same level as they were with Sale as their ace (stronger on offense but weaker on pitching), I don't know that the deal will have worked out for the White Sox. The White Sox still need a lot more pitching to be a serious contender.
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
It's probably a good trade for both teams. But if the White Sox with Giolito as their ace are roughly at the same level as they were with Sale as their ace (stronger on offense but weaker on pitching), I don't know that the deal will have worked out for the White Sox. The White Sox still need a lot more pitching to be a serious contender.
And Eaton didn't win the World Series all by himself. He needed Soto, Rendon, Strasburg and 20+ other players. Heck Eaton wasn't even the MVP and was probably 4th or 5th on the list of potential MVP.

None of that is to denigrate Eaton. He had an awesome series.
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  #38  
Old 11-01-2019, 01:24 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
It's probably a good trade for both teams. But if the White Sox with Giolito as their ace are roughly at the same level as they were with Sale as their ace (stronger on offense but weaker on pitching), I don't know that the deal will have worked out for the White Sox. The White Sox still need a lot more pitching to be a serious contender.
Well since you're lumping the Sale and Eaton trades together, as a reminder if the Sox never traded Sale, he would almost certainly be gone this offseason, and they wouldn't have their current best position player (Moncada) and top pitching prospect (Kopech). Unless you think the Sox would have won a World Series in the past 3 years, that trade is another win-win.
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2019, 02:37 PM
pmck003 pmck003 is offline
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Another way you could look at the trade is to think about what the Sox would get for Giolito right now if they put him on the market.
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2019, 03:33 PM
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Right would you trade Giolito and Lopez for Eaton today?
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  #41  
Old 11-01-2019, 03:48 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Right would you trade Giolito and Lopez for Eaton today?
Of course not.

Even from the opposite side, I'm sure if the Sox offered the Nationals Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning for Eaton, or if they offered the Red Sox Moncada and Kopech for Sale, those teams would both accept without hesitation.
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  #42  
Old 11-01-2019, 04:17 PM
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I wouldn't even trade Lopez straight up for Eaton. And I certainly wouldn't trade (1) Moncada or Kopech straight up for Sale or (2) Eloy or Cease straight up for Q.
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  #43  
Old 11-01-2019, 10:50 PM
SoxandtheCityTee SoxandtheCityTee is offline
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I don't understand the recent obsession with analyzing who "won" a trade. In theory trades are supposed to be mutually beneficial. If you keep ripping people off they will eventually either stop trading with you, or be replaced with new GMs who are better at talent evaluation.
No kidding. Not to mention the assumption that whatever the traded player's performance was with the new team in any given at-bat, game, series, or year is what he would have done with his old team.
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2019, 02:18 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Well since you're lumping the Sale and Eaton trades together, as a reminder if the Sox never traded Sale, he would almost certainly be gone this offseason, and they wouldn't have their current best position player (Moncada) and top pitching prospect (Kopech). Unless you think the Sox would have won a World Series in the past 3 years, that trade is another win-win.
I don't see the White Sox contending until they get more pitching. They could have built around what they had in 2016 if they had made made the magnitude of improvements the 2019 team needs. I certainly don't believe Kopech and for that matter Cease, are givens. Instead of working to put together a contender, this team has been putting itself in a position to build a contender.

Building a winner isn't easy. The Cubs made it look easy with, by their GM's admission, some lucky breaks. Meanwhile the Cubs have finished the last two seasons in increasingly worse collapse. People associated with the Astros have smugly asserted that it was easy for them to build a winner (read Astroball), but they have benefited from much of the league giving up and lost the World Series to the NL Wild Card, a team that sacrificed with its number 2 hitter in the first inning of an elimination game on the road, and they likely won't be that easy to maintain the superior starting rotation they depend on. You don't just trade for prospects and get high draft picks and become a contender.

I hope the White Sox do build a winner. out of what they have now. But it won't be as simple as waiting for pitching in the system to develop, and it won't be as simple as signing free agent pitchers, just as it was never as simply as signing the Dunns or LaRoches. Giving up and trading for prospects is the easy part.
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  #45  
Old 11-02-2019, 10:12 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I don't see the White Sox contending until they get more pitching. They could have built around what they had in 2016 if they had made made the magnitude of improvements the 2019 team needs. I certainly don't believe Kopech and for that matter Cease, are givens. Instead of working to put together a contender, this team has been putting itself in a position to build a contender.
I agree (although I think Cease is close to a given). Overall, I think the org. is way light in pitching depth; of course I've been saying that for years. They won 72 games last season against a pretty watered down schedule. They can't start trading for short-term players.

They did trade Eaton at the right time with his bloated WAR, but that was happenstance. They would have traded him anyway. The Nats won the world series because they could and did match the Astros' front-line starting pitching in a short series.
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