White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 10-16-2018, 01:15 AM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,078
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I dont know where you are coming up with Moncadas salary but cots is showing he is at the minimum next year and the year after. Also I believe the 32M bonus was paid by boston. The salary you are forgetting is Castillo which the Sox are on the hook for 7.25M next year.
It wasn't 31.5M. it was 63M. Boston covered half of the bonus. I don't know where or when it was actually paid. 31.5/6 yr contract is where I get the Moncada number.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:11 AM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Joliet,IL
Posts: 3,913
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
That's fair enough. But I guess it depends on what your definition of putting so many eggs in one basket is. The way the team is constructed now, even if they do give Machado a boatload of money over a long period of time, it'll still be five or six years before the payroll really starts to tighten, and that's provided that Moncada, Lopez, Giolito etc. actually improve enough to warrant a lot of money. Even if Machado's making $35 million per year, they have little enough in the way of commitments that it shouldn't hamper them making other big signings down the line. Personally, for a player of Machado's caliber, I'd be willing to take the risk of overpaying him for a few years at the end if it means opening up a five or six year championship window in his prime. I think that's just the risk you gotta take sometimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
The Sox have no money on the front end of it. They could heavily front load the contract. Abreu, Avi, Moncada and Anderson are the only players that aren't pre-arb next year. Avi is surely no guarantee to return and neither is Abreu.
They could have $120M(60M per year) of the contract in the 1st two years and still have a payroll around $80-90M. Their most expensive players other than Abreu, are Moncada and Anderson, at 5.25M and 6 M per year respectively, because Boston is covering half of Moncada's contract. The remainder of the team is in pre-arb, and if anyone is arb eligible that is here other than Abreu, they should probably be sent packing including Avi. Even Abreu is tough to keep around at an estimated 18-19M.

Good Points. Doesn't look like it would have a huge impact at least in the near future. I always fear injury or complacency when players sign long term deals. Though I guess that is the risk you have to take if it offers up the potential to open a championship window.

Also Machado doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:57 AM
mzh mzh is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,311
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
It wasn't 31.5M. it was 63M. Boston covered half of the bonus. I don't know where or when it was actually paid. 31.5/6 yr contract is where I get the Moncada number.
Unless I’m mistaken, Moncada didn’t sign a major league contract–it was a minor league deal with a $31.5M signing bonus, which then incurred a dollar-for-dollar tax because it was above the MLB-imposes limit. So while it was a $63MM commitment for Boston, only half of that actually went to Moncada, and because it was a signing bonus, not a contractual salary, it was paid up long before he was ever traded.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 10-16-2018, 12:21 PM
kobo kobo is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lake in the Hills
Posts: 5,496
Default

MZH is correct. Moncada received a bonus and the Red Sox had to pay a 100% tax on that bonus for exceeding their pool that year. I believe that same thing happened to the White Sox when they signed Luis Robert. And Moncada signed a 1 year deal for 550,000 last year which is what will probably happen again for 2019.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:54 PM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Joliet,IL
Posts: 3,913
Default

Exactly why I would not waste 10 years on this guy:

Dodgers' Machado admits he doesn't hustle: 'Not my cup of tea'
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb...tFY?li=BBnb7Kz
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:36 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 10,490
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
Exactly why I would not waste 10 years on this guy:

Dodgers' Machado admits he doesn't hustle: 'Not my cup of tea'
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb...tFY?li=BBnb7Kz
Seems like he contradicted himself in that article.
If someone is making the bucks these overpayed slugs are, they need to hustle all the time, what's so hard about running out a ground ball with maximum effort 2 or 3 times a game. That's why I love watching the Rays Kevin Kiermaier play the game, this guy doesn't know what "dogging it" means.
__________________
Batting in the second position for the White Sox, number 2, the second baseman Nelson Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:25 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 9,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL
Seems like he contradicted himself in that article.
If someone is making the bucks these overpayed slugs are, they need to hustle all the time, what's so hard about running out a ground ball with maximum effort 2 or 3 times a game. That's why I love watching the Rays Kevin Kiermaier play the game, this guy doesn't know what "dogging it" means.
He doesn’t know what “hitting” means, either.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and let’s fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:56 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 10,490
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
He doesn’t know what “hitting” means, either.
He had a tough time in 2018 with 3 different stints on the DL, actually he's had a tough injury plagued career having only 1 year that he exceeded 500 ABs but has stlll managed to win 2 Gold Gloves.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 10-16-2018 at 06:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 10-16-2018, 06:25 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 15,018
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobo View Post
You can't rush player development. The Sox have done that previously and it has never worked out for them. Now that they are in a position to take their time with prospects and let them develop naturally you want them to go back to the old way and rush development.
Not asking for rushing. I just don't see that much high end talent and the development of that talent that is in a position to rushed.
Jiminez looks great; Gonzales looks pretty good; some hope for Rutherford. Madrigal got off to a rough start and Robert is in a perpetual rough start. Other draft picks are meh at best. Pitching is Cease and.....Kopech who is recovering from a serious injury.
And so this idea of FAs is just strange to me, considering there's not a single player who is well above average on the entire 25 man roster. What is that going go accomplish? Sounds like an attempt to mask the reality of the last 2 years, if not the last 6 (and this FO was never held accountable for 2013-16).

Last edited by Tragg; 10-16-2018 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:10 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 9,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL
He had a tough time in 2018 with 3 different stints on the DL, actually he's had a tough injury plagued career having only 1 year that he exceeded 500 ABs but has stlll managed to win 2 Gold Gloves.
We don’t need to be more like the Rays. We need to be more like the Red Sox and Yankees, who both finished ahead of the Rays.
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:28 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 3,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Seems like he contradicted himself in that article.
If someone is making the bucks these overpayed slugs are, they need to hustle all the time, what's so hard about running out a ground ball with maximum effort 2 or 3 times a game. That's why I love watching the Rays Kevin Kiermaier play the game, this guy doesn't know what "dogging it" means.

Roberts said his catcher was not in the game and he had a front row seat to Machado's lack of hustle.


He could have pulled either out of the lineup but chose not to.


I do agree with you about KK he hustles and that is refreshing in this day and age.
__________________
“There were a few hard rules, but everybody was unique, and he understood that. George’s great strength was he didn’t overcoach. There’s no place for panic on the mound.” - Jim Palmer on George Bamberger “Arms and the man,” Sports Illustrated, April 19, 2004
Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:00 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 19,863
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
We don’t need to be more like the Rays. We need to be more like the Red Sox and Yankees, who both finished ahead of the Rays.
We’re not going to have the budget of the Red Sox, Yankees, or Dodgers.

But there’s no reason why we can’t have the largest payroll in the AL Central, particularly now that Detroit’s current ownership group is less enamored with plowing Little Caesar’s profits into the Tigers’ payroll.

We also should strive to:

Be as good as the Astros with advanced player maximization strategies;

Be as good as the Braves and Dodgers with signing and developing young international amateur talent;

Be as good as the Cardinals with player development “finishing;”

Be as good as Tom Kelly’s Twins and current Rays with having players capable of executing the fundamentals;

Be as good as the Athletics and Rays in identifying market and situational inefficiencies, and finding ways to exploit those inefficiencies;

Be as good as the Brewers, Athletics, and Rays, at making shrewd trades. (Kenny Williams’ run of trades between 2003 and 2008, other than Swisher, was another example of shrewd trading; his ability over that half-decade to supplement Buehrle and Garland with Colon, Loaiza, Contreras, Garcia, El Duque, Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd, while really only giving up McCarthy, Morse, and Young, is not likely to be repeated in our lifetime.)

There’s no silver bullet; there are many ways to build a successful organization and major league team. The Sox should strive to do all of them well.
__________________
The universe is the practical joke of the General at the expense of the Particular, quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow. Others laughed, seeing the Universal Joke. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though FRATER laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:20 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 10,490
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
We don’t need to be more like the Rays. We need to be more like the Red Sox and Yankees, who both finished ahead of the Rays.
I never said we need to be like the Rays, this was all about the lack of hustle by Machado and the hustle of Kiermaier. That being said, don't hold your breath that the White Sox could ever be like the Red Sox or Yankees, those 2 teams along with the Dodgers, Cubs and Cardinals make tons of money and contend year after year. Something us Sox fans can only dream about.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 10-16-2018 at 08:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:08 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chubbuck, Idaho
Posts: 33,213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
We don’t need to be more like the Rays. We need to be more like the Red Sox and Yankees, who both finished ahead of the Rays.
Great...as soon as we get 175 million dollar payroll from new ownership we will!
Reply With Quote
  #255  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:00 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Not asking for rushing. I just don't see that much high end talent and the development of that talent that is in a position to rushed.
Jiminez looks great; Gonzales looks pretty good; some hope for Rutherford. Madrigal got off to a rough start and Robert is in a perpetual rough start. Other draft picks are meh at best. Pitching is Cease and.....Kopech who is recovering from a serious injury.
And so this idea of FAs is just strange to me, considering there's not a single player who is well above average on the entire 25 man roster. What is that going go accomplish? Sounds like an attempt to mask the reality of the last 2 years, if not the last 6 (and this FO was never held accountable for 2013-16).
:
STRETCH!

...and Robert is in a "perpetual" rough start after playing a whopping one season stateside.

Last edited by Hitmen77; 10-17-2018 at 02:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.