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  #286  
Old 10-06-2018, 03:01 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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The wins totals may have been a little inflated, but that still doesnít have to mean the Aís didnít play great baseball, no? Plus the West was the only division that didnít have any truly godawful teams in it. That bullpen is one of the most singularly dominant group of relievers Iíve ever seen. Chapman is an absolute wizard at third and can really swing it. Isnít it fun watching a little guy like Khris Davis hit balls to the moon? Even that kid Laureano looks really exciting. Throw that in with a solid group of veterans like Lucroy, Lowrie, Semien, and Piscotty, and I think itís hard to argue they didnít earn those wins as much as any other team.

Besides, given the finite number of players in MLB at any given time, you could argue that talent level is a zero sum game. Just because the Oís, Royals, and White Sox fielded an unusually number of bad players doesnít mean the Red Sox and Yankees and Aís won games they didnít deserve to win, it just means they had an unusually high number of great players. I donít think itís really fair to call that watered down.

The A's are my local team. Houses on my block fly A's banners. The baseball I watched this year was mostly the A's on local television. They won a lot of games where they played bad baseball, made fundamental mistakes, throwing to the wrong base, running into outs. Semien, who had some shaky games defensiely, led the league in outs made for most of the year, although he ended up finishing second, one behind Lindor.


Half the league wasn't trying to win. Of course that affected win totals of contending teams. As long as baseball allows teams to intentionally field losing teams with the reward of high draft picks, as long as baseball allows, sadly even encourages non-contenders to field less competitive teams down the stretch by trading off quality players at the end of July for prospects, win totals are going to be inflated. This year in the American League it was extreme.
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  #287  
Old 10-06-2018, 06:03 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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re: #286
Who makes the decision that a MLB team is purposely fielding a losing ball club?

If the A's played a lot of bad baseball making fundamental mistakes such as throwing to the wrong base, running into outs and playing poor defense why not hire coaches that stress fundamental baseball? Why not sit those players that cannot execute the fundamentals?


RE: #284
As for Wrigley field the current ownership group made the ballpark and the neighborhood a tourist attraction. Wrigley is a historic landmark for baseball and football. You cannot take that historic aspect of the park away.
The current owners are very smart for promoting Wrigley as a must see destination.

I've attended many Cubs games at Wrigley because I am a local. If I was not a local, I myself would not make a visit to Wrigley an entry on my bucket list.

Those that make Wrigley a must see destination I say more power to you. You're getting to fulfill a goal in your life.


I continue to find it amazing the number of people who care about which baseball team has more fans, or higher attendance, or which team is thought to have the better park, in the better neighborhood, attended by a better fans.
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 10-06-2018 at 06:11 AM.
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  #288  
Old 10-06-2018, 01:26 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
re: #286
I continue to find it amazing the number of people who care about which baseball team has more fans, or higher attendance, or which team is thought to have the better park, in the better neighborhood, attended by a better fans.
It could be because those fans know that $$$$$ drives the train especially in a two team market competing for the bandwagon fan's money.

In theory more $$$$$ means more ability to invest in talent on the field, sign free agents, attract more and better advertisers, increase media perception et al.

In a single team market, probably not as big of a deal. In a market like Chicago, with the Sox so far behind in most categories, it is a major issue in my opinion. (And things haven't been helped by ownership for over 30+ years believing that they "are Chicago's American League team," not in competition with the Cubs and basically handing them the market when they had realistic chances to take control of a large share of it.)

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 10-06-2018 at 04:54 PM.
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  #289  
Old 10-06-2018, 02:26 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
re: #286
Who makes the decision that a MLB team is purposely fielding a losing ball club?

If the A's played a lot of bad baseball making fundamental mistakes such as throwing to the wrong base, running into outs and playing poor defense why not hire coaches that stress fundamental baseball? Why not sit those players that cannot execute the fundamentals?....

Hiring coaches is not the problem. Firing Greg Walker or even Robin Ventura was not the solution. Players don't get paid to play good fundamental baseball. Hitters often don't even get paid to actually hit.

It's a competition problem with the sport and the way it is structured, not simply a decision in the commissioner's office. The A's weren't built to win. They had a team that was extremely rough around the edges. The A's management didn't set out to build a winner, but the pitching prospects they brought up did better than expected (before they got hurt in a couple of cases). They had a very good defensive third baseman who hit a lot better than anyone expected. Their DH did very close to what he did last year when the team was losing.

Certainly there were heroics, but I saw the sort of mistakes I would expect to see at a Modesto Nuts game. Not that the Nuts aren't entertaining. Voodoo had a great time at Nuts game this year. But for all the complaints in this forum I've read over the years about how the White Sox will never win with players who make those mistakes, (throwing to the wrong base, assuming a player is out on a tag play without tagging the runner, being thrown out going from second to third on a one-out fly to left before the runner from third crosses the plate, minor-league mistakes were in abundance at A's games this year. Opponents often played bad baseball, too.


Baseball allowing teams to tank hurts the level of competition. After the A's and Yankees, there were no teams seriously close to the wild card. The Angels actually were trying to win, but they finished below .500 for the third straight year. The Twins, too, had hopes of winning, but the young players/recent prospects they counted on carrying them, Buxton and Sano, didn't bring their expected game.

The bigger problem is the integrity of the game. Basketball has long battled integrity issues, creating a draft lottery to decrease the incentive to lose and later tweaking it out of fairness with weighting that almost made it meaningless. Baseball teams only more recently have begun to celebrate losing to the point where some sort of adjustment to the draft might be needed to give teams an incentive to complete.
One thing baseball could do to address teams who intentionally fall into oblivion would be to penalize teams who trade their star players for prospects, taking away their first round picks and creating a sandwich round. Baseball also could move the trade deadline back to June 25. It has turned July 31 into a holiday where baseball's best get better at the expense of competition.
Most teams that go the scorched-earth rebuild route won't make it back soon.

I don't think relegation is the answer. And to baseball's credit, adding a play-in round to get the postseason series has helped, but it is only apparent in the more competitive National League where the difference between the top and bottom doesn't approach the extreme of the American League.

But between the pace of the game and the number of teams that aren't tanking, baseball needs to do something to require teams to try to be competitive.

I haven't watched baseball for weeks and won't be watching baseball until January. And I'm one person baseball shouldn't be losing while the sport's growth is declining.
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  #290  
Old 10-06-2018, 02:55 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Hiring coaches is not the problem. Firing Greg Walker or even Robin Ventura was not the solution. Players don't get paid to play good fundamental baseball. Hitters often don't even get paid to actually hit.

It's a competition problem with the sport and the way it is structured, not simply a decision in the commissioner's office. The A's weren't built to win. They had a team that was extremely rough around the edges. The A's management didn't set out to build a winner, but the pitching prospects they brought up did better than expected (before they got hurt in a couple of cases). They had a very good defensive third baseman who hit a lot better than anyone expected. Their DH did very close to what he did last year when the team was losing.

Certainly there were heroics, but I saw the sort of mistakes I would expect to see at a Modesto Nuts game. Not that the Nuts aren't entertaining. Voodoo had a great time at Nuts game this year. But for all the complaints in this forum I've read over the years about how the White Sox will never win with players who make those mistakes, (throwing to the wrong base, assuming a player is out on a tag play without tagging the runner, being thrown out going from second to third on a one-out fly to left before the runner from third crosses the plate, minor-league mistakes were in abundance at A's games this year. Opponents often played bad baseball, too.


Baseball allowing teams to tank hurts the level of competition. After the A's and Yankees, there were no teams seriously close to the wild card. The Angels actually were trying to win, but they finished below .500 for the third straight year. The Twins, too, had hopes of winning, but the young players/recent prospects they counted on carrying them, Buxton and Sano, didn't bring their expected game.

The bigger problem is the integrity of the game. Basketball has long battled integrity issues, creating a draft lottery to decrease the incentive to lose and later tweaking it out of fairness with weighting that almost made it meaningless. Baseball teams only more recently have begun to celebrate losing to the point where some sort of adjustment to the draft might be needed to give teams an incentive to complete.
One thing baseball could do to address teams who intentionally fall into oblivion would be to penalize teams who trade their star players for prospects, taking away their first round picks and creating a sandwich round. Baseball also could move the trade deadline back to June 25. It has turned July 31 into a holiday where baseball's best get better at the expense of competition.
Most teams that go the scorched-earth rebuild route won't make it back soon.

I don't think relegation is the answer. And to baseball's credit, adding a play-in round to get the postseason series has helped, but it is only apparent in the more competitive National League where the difference between the top and bottom doesn't approach the extreme of the American League.

But between the pace of the game and the number of teams that aren't tanking, baseball needs to do something to require teams to try to be competitive.

I haven't watched baseball for weeks and won't be watching baseball until January. And I'm one person baseball shouldn't be losing while the sport's growth is declining.
Absolutely great post especially the last two sentences. I'm still watching (a bit) but I wholeheartedly agree with the last sentence. Even if many would be more than happy to see us both get lost.
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  #291  
Old 10-06-2018, 08:19 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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One thing that should be remodeled is the player development timetable.

Current rules allow teams to keep players who sign at age-18 or younger in the minors for five years before being required to add them to the 40-man roster. This shortens to four years for players who sign at age-19 or older. These should be shortened to three years and two years, respectively.

I would also be in favor of reducing the number of option seasons from three to two.

Instead of the best young talents in the world spending as many as eight seasons languishing away in the minors, get them up here faster. Five years is enough. I would rather watch their growing pains than the quad-A roster filler that populates MLB rosters during a rebuild. Plus, players would be entering free agency with more prime years remaining in their careers, making that avenue of player acquisition more appealing.
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  #292  
Old 10-08-2018, 01:33 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
re: #286



RE: #284
As for Wrigley field the current ownership group made the ballpark and the neighborhood a tourist attraction. Wrigley is a historic landmark for baseball and football. You cannot take that historic aspect of the park away.
The current owners are very smart for promoting Wrigley as a must see destination.

I've attended many Cubs games at Wrigley because I am a local. If I was not a local, I myself would not make a visit to Wrigley an entry on my bucket list.

Those that make Wrigley a must see destination I say more power to you. You're getting to fulfill a goal in your life.
Further construction around Wrigley

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...003-story.html
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  #293  
Old 10-11-2018, 06:14 PM
PatK PatK is offline
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I'm on vacation in Punta Cana right now and everyone here is pretty friendly. We've watched a couple of the playoff games at the sports bar, and naturally everyone asks where you are from, who are you rooting for, etc.

So when people ask how I feel about the Flubs choking and I tell them I'm a Sox fan, every single person has mentioned that Cubs fans are the biggest douchebag fans they've encountered the last couple of years and asked how do we deal with them.

Amazing, considering some of the people have been Yankees and Red Sox fans.
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  #294  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:40 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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'"Something happened to our offense in the second half," Epstein said.' '"We stopped walking, we stopped hitting home runs, we stopped hitting the ball in the air, and we stopped being productive. Not being able to get to two runs that many times in the second half is really unacceptable."'

Their slugging in the second half was horrible. It was the fault of the schedule makers: all those consecutive games in a row tired the boys out.

Chilli Davis: the first to fall.

https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-dismis...is/c-297660896
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  #295  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:09 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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Quote:
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'"Something happened to our offense in the second half," Epstein said.' '"We stopped walking, we stopped hitting home runs, we stopped hitting the ball in the air, and we stopped being productive. Not being able to get to two runs that many times in the second half is really unacceptable."'

Their slugging in the second half was horrible. It was the fault of the schedule makers: all those consecutive games in a row tired the boys out.

Chilli Davis: the first to fall.

https://www.mlb.com/Hnews/cubs-dismiss-hitting-coach-chili-davis/c-297660896

No surprise there. He's the easiest guy to pin the blame on.
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  #296  
Old 10-12-2018, 03:58 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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[teal]This is just what the world needs right now [teal]

Can pretty much guarantee David Ross and/or Joe Maddon will have massive roles in this
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  #297  
Old 10-13-2018, 12:04 AM
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Amazing, considering some of the people have been Yankees and Red Sox fans.
After the BoSox won it all in 2004, Cub fans jumped on their bandwagon bit time, claiming some sort of kinship (I guess for long World Series titles droughts). Red Sox fans hated them for this since, well, the Cubs were closing in on 100 years of futility and nobody invited them to the Red Sox party.
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  #298  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:15 AM
Cangelosi CF Cangelosi CF is offline
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Cubs hired the Texas hitting coach, so now Joe/Theo/Jed have a new scapegoat. Third hitting coach in four seasons for the Cubs.
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  #299  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:21 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Cubs hired the Texas hitting coach, so now Joe/Theo/Jed have a new scapegoat. Third hitting coach in four seasons for the Cubs.

Excellent news. Texas was potent in 2016 and went belly up in both 2017 & 2018. So we know the HC has issues with his club's performance the last two years.
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  #300  
Old 10-17-2018, 06:05 AM
slavko slavko is offline
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I see a parallel between this and the thread about mattress stores closing. People don't think they sleep well enough and mattresses become the scapegoat, just like baseball teams can't hit for average any more (many reasons) and hitting coaches must take the blame, not the bozos that are trying to hit 97+ to Canada every time they step into the batter's box.
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