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  #421  
Old 11-20-2019, 08:29 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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OK, then. If 2 years of Bryant is not enough for 7 years of Madrigal, then why not go the other way and add another guy like that with a plus hit tool in Nico Hoerner? Take all of Jason Heyward’s overpaid contract; send back someone like Luis Gonzalez or Luis Basabe along with 2 inconsequential pitchers; and insist that the Cubs give up Nico Hoerner, Justin Steele, and Yovanny Cruz.
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  #422  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:29 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Good points plus I want Moncada to remain at 3B, why mess him up moving him back to second and then back again to third, he had a fine last year with the bat and with the glove.
If you (the White Sox) want Bryant get him & put him in LF.
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 11-20-2019 at 01:45 PM. Reason: clarification...
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  #423  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:56 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Are you a doctor now, or just a psychic? Dudes been healthy for the full slate two straight years. He's not an injury concern. No matter how many times you want to imagine he is.


He's not the best option. He's the only good option that will be relatively affordable by White Sox standards. They're looking at him getting $120-$140 million, and while his track record isn't Cole or Strasburg (which is why that number isn't $100 million higher), he's a good bet to be as good as them for the duration of any deal he gets.


I'm pushing for Strasburg and Cole...but if as we all suspect $250-$300 million on a pitcher isn't what the White Sox would ever do...you're not going to see a pitcher with Wheeler's talent available at such a low price. So strike now, or blow the team up and start over.
Umm what? It's pretty common knowledge that soft tissue injuries can get re-injured and that broken bones are for the most part healed for good after. Wheeler was literally on the IL/DL last year for his arm too...

When you are getting an ace you need to be getting actual production, meaning a great ERA. FIP doesn't count nearly as much for TOR guys who you are depending on them to actually throw up stats to win you games. Wheeler's best case scenario is to be close to Cole/Strasburg in his very best years, that does not mean he's a "good bet to be as good as them during the duration of the deal."

You really think they should blow the team up if they don't land Cole/Strasburg/Wheeler this offseason? Guess I shouldn't be that surprised by your overreaction.

Last edited by ChiSoxNationPres; 11-20-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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  #424  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:12 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
OK, then. If 2 years of Bryant is not enough for 7 years of Madrigal, then why not go the other way and add another guy like that with a plus hit tool in Nico Hoerner? Take all of Jason Heyward’s overpaid contract; send back someone like Luis Gonzalez or Luis Basabe along with 2 inconsequential pitchers; and insist that the Cubs give up Nico Hoerner, Justin Steele, and Yovanny Cruz.
A contender with a good farm can make an argument to trade for a short term contract. The Sox aren't a contender yet.
How about forgetting all of the contrivances and just go out and find a couple of starters, a couple of relievers and an outfielder.
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  #425  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:26 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
A contender with a good farm can make an argument to trade for a short term contract. The Sox aren't a contender yet.
How about forgetting all of that dog and pony show stuff and just go out and find a couple of starters, a couple of relievers and an outfielder.
Or just use 2020 as the last year for development, get the big-time rotation piece this year, go with single-season fluff in the other spots, and go full-court press for Mookie next winter in free agency. He is the one player available the next few years who you absolutely refuse to lose out on when the bidding gets steep. Exceed any other offer by guaranteeing an extra year and an extra $3 million AAV. For starters, offer Machado’s 10 years with Harper’s $330 million, and tell him that it is available the entire offseason. Who knows, he may even end up taking it immediately.

That is what I’m hoping they do.

Delusional? Yes, but I’m hoping against hope that this is the stealth plan by the front office. Make a nifty trade or two as well to get some premium farm depth.
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  #426  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:02 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Umm what? It's pretty common knowledge that soft tissue injuries can get re-injured and that broken bones are for the most part healed for good after. Wheeler was literally on the IL/DL last year for his arm too...

When you are getting an ace you need to be getting actual production, meaning a great ERA. FIP doesn't count nearly as much for TOR guys who you are depending on them to actually throw up stats to win you games. Wheeler's best case scenario is to be close to Cole/Strasburg in his very best years, that does not mean he's a "good bet to be as good as them during the duration of the deal."

You really think they should blow the team up if they don't land Cole/Strasburg/Wheeler this offseason? Guess I shouldn't be that surprised by your overreaction.
LOL...he missed a start and went on IL with fatigue. Not exactly the same thing as being injured.

It takes multiple high level aces to compete for a title. The White Sox are great on position player development, but have maybe developed one starter, have two question marks, and a couple more longshots. They obviously need to add an ace, or two depending on development, from outside the organization to make the leap. One is available for a fraction of the going rate. If they're not going to win bidding on that guy...it's pretty obvious they're never going to sign a pitcher to take that next step. So yes, the logical move is to blow it up and start over.
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  #427  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:11 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
LOL...he missed a start and went on IL with fatigue. Not exactly the same thing as being injured.

It takes multiple high level aces to compete for a title. The White Sox are great on position player development, but have maybe developed one starter, have two question marks, and a couple more longshots. They obviously need to add an ace, or two depending on development, from outside the organization to make the leap. One is available for a fraction of the going rate. If they're not going to win bidding on that guy...it's pretty obvious they're never going to sign a pitcher to take that next step. So yes, the logical move is to blow it up and start over.
Yup. The only exception to this would be executing a fortuitous trade for an ace with a team that is entering a rebuild.

You can be gun-shy about dollars, or you can be gun-shy about trading prospects. You can’t be both.
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  #428  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:26 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
LOL...he missed a start and went on IL with fatigue. Not exactly the same thing as being injured.

It takes multiple high level aces to compete for a title. The White Sox are great on position player development, but have maybe developed one starter, have two question marks, and a couple more longshots. They obviously need to add an ace, or two depending on development, from outside the organization to make the leap. One is available for a fraction of the going rate. If they're not going to win bidding on that guy...it's pretty obvious they're never going to sign a pitcher to take that next step. So yes, the logical move is to blow it up and start over.
Arm/shoulder fatigue is the first sign a lot of times of a worse injury possibly beginning.

Well yeah it takes multiple pitchers that are throwing at a high level to win it all. No one has ever disputed that. My point is that within the next 4-5 years it's very possible, even likely, that 2-3 of: Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Rodon, Stiever, Dunning will be having good to great years at the same time. Also the trade landscape for pitchers changes every single year and there is no way of knowing who will be available for trade in 2-3 years, plus other years of FA pitching classes to go after. Just saying that missing out on Cole/Strasburg/Wheeler doesn't change the bright future of the team or rotation.

The Sox are great with position player development, but not good with pitching development? I think it's the opposite.
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  #429  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:56 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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I still see it being Bumgarner (or worse) when the dust settles. Bumgarner’s “intangibles” will seal the deal—especially the “intangible” of a lower financial obligation.
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  #430  
Old Yesterday, 12:42 PM
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thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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https://www.sny.tv/yankees/news/sour...ndal/311953278
Sox are going after Zack Wheeler now that Grandal has signed.
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  #431  
Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
blurry blurry is offline
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I'm loving this aggressiveness. Front office isn't waiting around. They're gonna force all the other teams to get on this now.
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