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  #61  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:11 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is online now
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Originally Posted by brian26 View Post
again, there was a show called white sox weekly on wls, so “i’m sure they weren’t even mentioned” is incorrect.

This would fall into that category of you can never win a debate on the internet, as people don’t care to read or consider a different viewpoint.
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  #62  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:19 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Brian,

I not here to degrade anyone or win an argument but I bet you could ask people that frequent this board, who are devoted Sox fans and most couldnt tell you when this program is on or that it even existed. Then how are others going to know about the one program that was on this basically politically based station, WLS? Ill stand by that this radio deal was totally botched by ownership.
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  #63  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:29 PM
TomC727 TomC727 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Brian,

I not here to degrade anyone or win an argument but I bet you could ask people that frequent this board, who are devoted Sox fans and most couldnt tell you when this program is on or that it even existed. Then how are others going to know about the one program that was on this basically politically based station, WLS? Ill stand by that this radio deal was totally botched by ownership.
I knew about White Sox Weekly and listened to it regularly. I'm assuming others here did, too
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  #64  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:30 PM
TomC727 TomC727 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I have to preface this my saying I try to avoid getting into debates on here anymore. It's just not worth the time.

Nobody here knows the language of the Sox contract with WLS.

Every team in major league baseball and every professional sports team who is bidding out there broadcast rights will take the highest bid. The Sox did nothing incorrect or morally wrong.

The Sox do have a weekly show on WLS called White Sox Weekly. The station did market the team, to the extent that even a couple of weeks ago they had some kind of joint vacation/cruise with Sox players and Steve Dahl's show.

The Sox can't be blamed because Cumulus Media is bleeding money and trying to get out of contract with the Bulls, their purchase of the WLUP, and other ventures in addition to the Sox contract. The entire dynamic of sports broadcasting contracts is changing with online streaming.

Going into the current contract, they knew they weren't going to be on a sports radio station, but honestly, that kind of venture creates a bad situation for the team if things aren't going well on the field. It creates more harm than good to have Dan Bernstein ripping the team to shreds for two hours a day leading into the game than having a politcal talk show on the air before instead. It is a contentious situation. The Sox dealt with this on AM 1000 years before with Mariotti ripping them to shreads and then the afternoon guys (Carmen and Silvy) trying to railroad JR during an interview on Opening Day 2005. They moved to the Score and saw North drag Ozzie through the mud and then Cooper made a fool out of himself with Mulley and Hanley. Not saying that is the reason they moved to WLS, but I'm suggesting this concept that being on another station that caters to baseball fans is idealistic at best and has been problematic most of the time.

This radio situation involves unfortunate luck, but I don't place any blame on the Sox.
Very well said.
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  #65  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:31 PM
kba kba is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Finally, I am not a savvy billionaire businessman but if I was, I think I would have known the financial state of the media company before I signed a contract with them.
Good luck finding a radio station with an acceptable financial state. Cumulus, which owns /operates 890 and three other Chicago stations is in bankruptcy. Entercom - owner of 670, 780, and four major FM stations - has more than $1.5 billion in debt. Tribune, which owns 720, has been through bankruptcy and is in the process of being sold. Iheart, which owns seven Chicago stations, seems unlikely to make it through the year as a going concern.

This is a radio industry issue, not a White Sox issue.
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  #66  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:43 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
...and to clarify, 105.9's call letters used to be WCKG. I believe that's where the confusion is coming from.
Yep that's my fault. I never got used to 105.9 being WCFS.
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  #67  
Old 01-28-2018, 08:35 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomC727 View Post
I knew about White Sox Weekly and listened to it regularly. I'm assuming others here did, too
There's also a podcast of it, and based on what is showing up in my feed now they did at least four hours of SoxFest coverage this weekend. So, yeah, anybody saying they don't do any Sox promotion just doesn't know what they're talking about.
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  #68  
Old 01-28-2018, 09:45 PM
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tebman tebman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kba View Post
Good luck finding a radio station with an acceptable financial state. Cumulus, which owns /operates 890 and three other Chicago stations is in bankruptcy. Entercom - owner of 670, 780, and four major FM stations - has more than $1.5 billion in debt. Tribune, which owns 720, has been through bankruptcy and is in the process of being sold. Iheart, which owns seven Chicago stations, seems unlikely to make it through the year as a going concern.

This is a radio industry issue, not a White Sox issue.
Radio, as an industry, is on the ropes. The debt that kba described is accurate and is scary. Radio, like print publications, has relied on ad revenue as the core of its business model since the 1800s. Technology has turned that on its head in the past 20 years and nobody in that business knows how to handle it.

WGN dropped the Cubs after 50 years because they were losing money. The station couldn't make up in ad revenue what it cost in rights fees. CBS Radio (now Entercom) paid somewhere around $10 million to the Cubs after they were dropped by WGN, and now WSCR/Entercom is losing money too. WBBM-AM 780, WBBM-FM 96.3, and WCFS-FM 105.9 are also owned by Entercom, and they're all strained by the lousy Cubs deal.

WLS's corporate owners are in bankruptcy, and that also takes down WLS-FM, WLUP-FM, and WKQX-FM.

iHeartMedia is dangling close to bankruptcy, and they own WLIT-FM 93.9, WEBG-FM 95.5, WVAZ-FM 102.7, WKSC-FM 103.5, WGCI-FM 107.5, and WGRB-AM 1390.

WGN-AM and WGN-TV are going through an ownership change. Tribune Media has been bought by Sinclair Broadcasting in Baltimore, and they're not in a position to take on an expensive program commitment in the middle of the purchase process.

WMVP-AM 1000 is owned by ESPN, which is in its own financial squeeze and isn't likely to invest in a high-priced rights deal.

So who's left? WIND-AM? Not likely, since it's owned by Salem Media Group in Dallas. They're a religious-based outfit that doesn't invest in big programs. The other FM stations? Their formats and identities are based on wall-to-wall music that they're not going to interrupt with ballgames.

Who knows what will happen? I think sports play-by-play should be carried on a big-signal AM station whose coverage area covers more than just the area around Chicago. FM signals don't reach much beyond 40 miles. A network of FM stations might work, but to do that a bunch of FM stations would need to be convinced to interrupt their profitable music stream for three hours every day for six months out of the year.

Radio and TV broadcasts are promotional vehicles for any professional sports team. We all know about the Sox's bonehead decision in 1967 to commit to having games carried on WFLD-TV 32 when virtually no one had a TV that could receive anything above channel 13. The Sox lost WMAQ-AM in the early 1970s and were stuck on little WTAQ in LaGrange. Then in the 1980s the Sox took the games off free TV and started SportsVision, which was a bust. The damage done was generations deep and opened the door for the Tribune to shill for the Cubs for 30 years.

If the Sox aren't on a widely-available radio signal, they're going to lose a major artery that feeds promotion, just as the best crop of rookies in 40 years rises to the big club. My guess is that the Sox will work out a deal of some kind with an AM station, maybe WLS again, but it won't be for the kind of money they got before. If they don't, it'll be another self-inflicted wound.
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Last edited by tebman; 01-28-2018 at 09:50 PM. Reason: typo
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  #69  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:47 AM
Pete Ward Pete Ward is offline
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The future is coming ........

White Sox will have to pay an AM / FM station to carry their games (buy on air time) ... then it will be up to the Sox to sell the advertising time

Sox would own the broadcast from start to finish
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  #70  
Old 01-29-2018, 09:07 AM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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I'd like the record to show, despite not ever listening to WLS, I knew about the White Sox weekly radio show. I believe the Score had a weekly radio show when the Sox were on it. But, I rarely listened to it anyway.
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  #71  
Old 01-29-2018, 01:51 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebman View Post
Radio, as an industry, is on the ropes. The debt that kba described is accurate and is scary. Radio, like print publications, has relied on ad revenue as the core of its business model since the 1800s. Technology has turned that on its head in the past 20 years and nobody in that business knows how to handle it.

WGN dropped the Cubs after 50 years because they were losing money. The station couldn't make up in ad revenue what it cost in rights fees. CBS Radio (now Entercom) paid somewhere around $10 million to the Cubs after they were dropped by WGN, and now WSCR/Entercom is losing money too. WBBM-AM 780, WBBM-FM 96.3, and WCFS-FM 105.9 are also owned by Entercom, and they're all strained by the lousy Cubs deal.

WLS's corporate owners are in bankruptcy, and that also takes down WLS-FM, WLUP-FM, and WKQX-FM.

iHeartMedia is dangling close to bankruptcy, and they own WLIT-FM 93.9, WEBG-FM 95.5, WVAZ-FM 102.7, WKSC-FM 103.5, WGCI-FM 107.5, and WGRB-AM 1390.

WGN-AM and WGN-TV are going through an ownership change. Tribune Media has been bought by Sinclair Broadcasting in Baltimore, and they're not in a position to take on an expensive program commitment in the middle of the purchase process.

WMVP-AM 1000 is owned by ESPN, which is in its own financial squeeze and isn't likely to invest in a high-priced rights deal.

So who's left? WIND-AM? Not likely, since it's owned by Salem Media Group in Dallas. They're a religious-based outfit that doesn't invest in big programs. The other FM stations? Their formats and identities are based on wall-to-wall music that they're not going to interrupt with ballgames.

Who knows what will happen? I think sports play-by-play should be carried on a big-signal AM station whose coverage area covers more than just the area around Chicago. FM signals don't reach much beyond 40 miles. A network of FM stations might work, but to do that a bunch of FM stations would need to be convinced to interrupt their profitable music stream for three hours every day for six months out of the year.

Radio and TV broadcasts are promotional vehicles for any professional sports team. We all know about the Sox's bonehead decision in 1967 to commit to having games carried on WFLD-TV 32 when virtually no one had a TV that could receive anything above channel 13. The Sox lost WMAQ-AM in the early 1970s and were stuck on little WTAQ in LaGrange. Then in the 1980s the Sox took the games off free TV and started SportsVision, which was a bust. The damage done was generations deep and opened the door for the Tribune to shill for the Cubs for 30 years.

If the Sox aren't on a widely-available radio signal, they're going to lose a major artery that feeds promotion, just as the best crop of rookies in 40 years rises to the big club. My guess is that the Sox will work out a deal of some kind with an AM station, maybe WLS again, but it won't be for the kind of money they got before. If they don't, it'll be another self-inflicted wound.
I don't think that's necessarily true, with XM and Satellite radio you can listen to the Sox anywhere if you really want to. I do think it helps to be on an AM station, but it's not the end of the world if they're on an FM station either.
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  #72  
Old 01-29-2018, 02:04 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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There are options to the White Sox (and all other sports teams that have their games on radio):

1. Sirius, as mentioned above.
2. Pro teams can start a RSN radio station like the RSN television stations. The advantage of this is lower overhead than television and no assumed debts from old radio business models.

There are solutions. Just think outside the box.
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  #73  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:49 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Another key fact to remember: it's 2018. Is radio still important to some people? Of course. But I think that number is getting lower all the time. It's easy to stream audio and video now. A lot of people (myself included) basically never listen to local radio at all, listening to podcasts or satellite instead.

Would it be a complete disaster if somehow the Sox had no radio at all? I suppose so. But that seems rather unlikely. And if they do get a new station that's a little worse or whatever? It'll be fine.
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  #74  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:15 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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It's easy to stream audio and video now.
For a price of course...for a price.
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  #75  
Old 01-29-2018, 09:16 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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For a price of course...for a price.
CSN (or NBC Sports Chicago now I guess) in-market streaming is free for subscribers. Gameday Audio is like $2.99 a month or $20 for the season? So, yes, it has a price, but it's a price that I don't think would be a hardship for the vast majority of people.
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