White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:16 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 10,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post

If the rest of the prospects don't pan out and we suck in '20, then having at least a trade chip like Jimenez with 4 years control from '21-24 will be at least something. Also there is a good chance we extend him before that point and buy out 2 or so years of his free agency having him for at least 6 years past '20.

If most of the prospects are busts and jimenez isnt, what the Sox get for him wont really matter much. It all comes down to who you think is a better ball player and who will help the Sox more if the rebuild works. Ill go with a proven entity, Yelich.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:29 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
If most of the prospects are busts and jimenez isnt, what the Sox get for him wont really matter much. It all comes down to who you think is a better ball player and who will help the Sox more if the rebuild works. Ill go with a proven entity, Yelich.
In '20, Robert, Rutherford, Burger, Dunning, Hansen, Collins will all have less than a year of MLB experience. The Sox rebuild window won't be close to over then.

Remember that the Sox had plenty of great players that were performing when they sucked the last several years. So Jimenez, Moncada, Kopech, and Giolito being great over the next few years can easily translate to a bad team if we don't fill out the rest of the roster with solid to good players.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:11 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
If most of the prospects are busts and jimenez isnt, what the Sox get for him wont really matter much. It all comes down to who you think is a better ball player and who will help the Sox more if the rebuild works. Ill go with a proven entity, Yelich.
I'll go with the rebuild. Acquiring veterans comes later. Trading top prospects doesn't come anytime.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-18-2018, 06:51 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 10,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
I'll go with the rebuild. Acquiring veterans comes later. Trading top prospects doesn't come anytime.
Trading one prospect for a young, proven, cost controlled player is not canning a rebuild.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:02 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Trading one prospect for a young, proven, cost controlled player is not canning a rebuild.
Trading away your number 1 prospect, #5 in baseball, who by all appearances is going to go on to become a superstar far beyond the guy you are considering trading for... most definitely is throwing away any pretenses that you are committed to the rebuild. Yelich is good and it would be nice to have him but he ain't that good and commitment to the program is important. Commitment to keeping a guy that looks like he is going to anchor the #4 spot in your lineup for the next decade is important.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:05 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 3,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohoney View Post
the white sox should be looking to sell major leaguers for minor leaguers, not to buy major leaguers for minor leaguers.
+1
__________________
“There were a few hard rules, but everybody was unique, and he understood that. George’s great strength was he didn’t overcoach. There’s no place for panic on the mound.” - Jim Palmer on George Bamberger “Arms and the man,” Sports Illustrated, April 19, 2004
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:19 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 10,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
Trading away your number 1 prospect, #5 in baseball, who by all appearances is going to go on to become a superstar far beyond the guy you are considering trading for... most definitely is throwing away any pretenses that you are committed to the rebuild. Yelich is good and it would be nice to have him but he ain't that good and commitment to the program is important. Commitment to keeping a guy that looks like he is going to anchor the #4 spot in your lineup for the next decade is important.
Id still take the sure thing and watch how the rebuild goes.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:25 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
Chief Skeptic and 2015 Preseason Predictions Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,439
Default

I wouldn't give up anyone in our top 5 (on the 2018 Baseball America list) in a Yelich deal. Might consider giving up one player ranked 6-10 as a headliner.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:41 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Id still take the sure thing and watch how the rebuild goes.
Short view given that would be its end.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:00 PM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Del Boca Vista, Florida
Posts: 3,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I wouldn't give up anyone in our top 5 (on the 2018 Baseball America list) in a Yelich deal. Might consider giving up one player ranked 6-10 as a headliner.
If they would take a package of: Rutherford, Adams, Puckett and a wildcard like Zeby Zavala....then you do that. But you are not trading any of your top 5 prospects for Yelich right now.
__________________

H2H1 Champion 2011, 2012
Dynasty Runner up 2012
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:05 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plainfield
Posts: 11,534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
But we don't have any sense of where the potential holes are. Right now the Sox have a highly regarded prospect at every single position except bullpen. As we all know, at least a few of these guys won't pan out but we have no idea today which ones and therefore no idea where the holes are going to be. In 2019 we'll have a better idea and in 2020 we'll have a much better idea of what holes need plugging.

I would also argue that in a year that price might go down. The free agent class is deep and wide. Sure Harper and Machado will cost a kings ransom but that will actually drive down the cost of some others.

We also have one of our top prospects, Luis Robert, projected as our CF come 2020 so at the moment it is not a position of need.

That said, if the Marlins want to fire sale Yelich then by all means go get him. But don't make an exception for him (or Machado) and don't deviate from the plan.
But he and Machado are totally different. Yelich is under control for years. Machado is just a wild card shot he likes it here and stays.

I don't disagree, but we can see some holes. Rutherford had a horrible year, Collins did not look good at all, and what was supposed to be a STRONG hit tool looks kind of Gordon Beckham-ish (he has major hitching issues). Collins was rebuilding his swing in instructional league this fall, and said it did not feel good or comfortable.

These are the things Hahn has to capitalize on. Not saying those 2 are the one's who have to go, but our farm is going to be littered with these types, all farms are. You have to be able to turn them to value before they get exposed. Thankfully, not my job to figure out who that is haha.

And again, I am not saying by any means I would trade Eloy or someone top flight for him. But If I could get him for 6-10 spec and Avi, and sell high on a future bust and before Avi returns to blah, then I jump on it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:39 PM
thomas35forever's Avatar
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lombard
Posts: 26,755
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Id still take the sure thing and watch how the rebuild goes.
Jimenez is almost as sure a thing as we have in our system. Give him a little more seasoning in the minors, and he'll be one of the most intimidating bats in the game. Sorry, but any thoughts of a contact hitter like Christian Yelich providing a little power pales in comparison to the dream of Eloy Jimenez drilling balls out of Comiskey at a rate and with a force not seen since Frank. He's absolutely no-touch.
__________________
Consistency lost
If found, please return to 333 W. 35th Street, Chicago. Generous reward offered.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:59 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I don't disagree, but we can see some holes. Rutherford had a horrible year, Collins did not look good at all, and what was supposed to be a STRONG hit tool looks kind of Gordon Beckham-ish (he has major hitching issues). Collins was rebuilding his swing in instructional league this fall, and said it did not feel good or comfortable.
This is the first I have heard of this. Do you have links to support this?

A recent Merkin article says this about Collins instructional league work:
https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/za...ct/c-264820036
Quote:
It was much more of a swing refinement as opposed to an overhaul.
...but, your saying they were rebuilding his swing. Do you have any source to refute what Merkin and Sox coaches are saying?

I also haven't heard that Collins has a Beckham-ish hitch in his swing. Can others who follow the minors more closely than I do confirm this?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-19-2018, 08:16 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 8,830
Default

This rebuild is dependend upon:

1. Yoan Moncada and Eloy Jimemez becoming monster middle-of-the-order hitters

2. Enough of the minor league pitchers “panning out” to form a complete rotation, hopefully with a high-leverage reliever or two emerging as consolation prizes among the guys who don’t “pan out” as starters

3. Enough position players like Zack Collins, Jake Burger, and Tim Anderson developing into solid contributors, if not stars.

4. Defense and baserunning becoming priorities, not afterthoughts, in the player evaluation process at all levels.

If I were constructing an “untouchables” list for the White Sox, my four names would be Yoan Moncada, Eloy Jimenez, Michael Kopech, and Alec Hansen. Since a Christian Yelich trade would undoubtedly require at least one of these four players, a trade simply would not be worthwhile at this time, especially when two years of Yelich’s five years of team control would be wasted on non-competitive rosters.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and let’s fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-19-2018, 09:43 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
This rebuild is dependend upon:

1. Yoan Moncada and Eloy Jimemez becoming monster middle-of-the-order hitters

2. Enough of the minor league pitchers “panning out” to form a complete rotation, hopefully with a high-leverage reliever or two emerging as consolation prizes among the guys who don’t “pan out” as starters

3. Enough position players like Zack Collins, Jake Burger, and Tim Anderson developing into solid contributors, if not stars.

4. Defense and baserunning becoming priorities, not afterthoughts, in the player evaluation process at all levels.

If I were constructing an “untouchables” list for the White Sox, my four names would be Yoan Moncada, Eloy Jimenez, Michael Kopech, and Alec Hansen. Since a Christian Yelich trade would undoubtedly require at least one of these four players, a trade simply would not be worthwhile at this time, especially when two years of Yelich’s five years of team control would be wasted on non-competitive rosters.
I would add Luis Robert to the untouchable list and perhaps to the middle of the order monster list in #1. Otherwise completely agree with all of this.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.