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  #16  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:01 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Who do you replace Jose with immediately who is any less costly to the organization as a whole? We are trying to get better not worse, and losing him makes us immediately worse without a somehow costly replacement.

Not my $17M and it shouldn't deter us from spending a single red cent of future money.
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:10 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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It started with the qualifying offer. This decreased his FA worth and he knew it. If the Sox didnt give a qualifying offer he would have signed a multi year deal, with either the Sox or another team, at more than the qualifying offer but at much lower per year price. At this point if the Sox sign him to a multi year deal they will be overpaying.
  #18  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:11 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Who do you replace Jose with immediately who is any less costly to the organization as a whole? We are trying to get better not worse, and losing him makes us immediately worse without a somehow costly replacement.

Not my $17M and it shouldn't deter us from spending a single red cent of future money.
You use 2020 to figure that out, along with answering a lot of other questions.

This idea of absolutely needing to compete/show progress/any other catch-phrase in 2020 is goofy. We donít even have a legitimate manager yet, so competing in 2020 is already off the table.
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:51 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
You use 2020 to figure that out, along with answering a lot of other questions.

This idea of absolutely needing to compete/show progress/any other catch-phrase in 2020 is goofy. We donít even have a legitimate manager yet, so competing in 2020 is already off the table.
No thanks. I donít want to figure anything out at the position, yet. I want our known quantity and veteran clubhouse leader there to keep the spot warm for the kids to be ready to come after him.
  #20  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:09 AM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
No thanks. I donít want to figure anything out at the position, yet. I want our known quantity and veteran clubhouse leader there to keep the spot warm for the kids to be ready to come after him.
I agree with you 100%! Signing Abreu was a must not just because heís still a valuable player but because heís a true leader on this team. I definitely feel the Sox will go after two starting pitchers and a right fielder and 2020 will be a different year with a much different result!
  #21  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:57 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
You use 2020 to figure that out, along with answering a lot of other questions.

This idea of absolutely needing to compete/show progress/any other catch-phrase in 2020 is goofy. We donít even have a legitimate manager yet, so competing in 2020 is already off the table.
Why progress in maturity, pitch selection, experience in game situations, throwing to the right base, playing acceptable defense or improving in any other phase of the game when the manager is compromised?
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:17 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
No thanks. I donít want to figure anything out at the position, yet. I want our known quantity and veteran clubhouse leader there to keep the spot warm for the kids to be ready to come after him.
^This...
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:27 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
You use 2020 to figure that out, along with answering a lot of other questions.

This idea of absolutely needing to compete/show progress/any other catch-phrase in 2020 is goofy. We donít even have a legitimate manager yet, so competing in 2020 is already off the table.
I respect most of what you post, but this is garbage.
  #25  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:10 AM
asindc asindc is online now
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Who do you replace Jose with immediately who is any less costly to the organization as a whole? We are trying to get better not worse, and losing him makes us immediately worse without a somehow costly replacement.

Not my $17M and it shouldn't deter us from spending a single red cent of future money.
I'd like an answer to that question as well.
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  #26  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:29 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I like Abreu a lot, but the dollars without a doubt are going to bite us in the ass.

The only way it does not is if you believe JR is going to run a 110-120 mil payroll this year. Otherwise, the Math is not there.

Based on this info

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/

Abreu now puts payroll at ~64 mil for 11 guys based on arbitration estimates

You have 10 guys likely to stick around for pre arb deals - Lets say that AVERAGES 750k per guy, thats another 7.5 mil

So we are now talking 71.5 mil for 21 players, or 65.5 if we non tender Yolmer which it sounds possible

That leaves ~30 mil total at 100 mil, 40-50 mil at 110-120

Under 20 mil if we staying around 90 (which is the JR MO)

So the question is, how committed are they to spending on this team?

We have not run a payroll over 100 mil since 2015 and only 3 times since 2010, but mixed in their was an aggressive 129 mil payroll.

Maybe I am underestimating their commitment to spend, but I just don't know
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  #27  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:42 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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If JR is not willing to have a payroll north of $100 million, let's just shut this website down and all become Brewers fans or something.
  #28  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I like Abreu a lot, but the dollars without a doubt are going to bite us in the ass.

The only way it does not is if you believe JR is going to run a 110-120 mil payroll this year. Otherwise, the Math is not there.

Based on this info

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/

Abreu now puts payroll at ~64 mil for 11 guys based on arbitration estimates

You have 10 guys likely to stick around for pre arb deals - Lets say that AVERAGES 750k per guy, thats another 7.5 mil

So we are now talking 71.5 mil for 21 players, or 65.5 if we non tender Yolmer which it sounds possible

That leaves ~30 mil total at 100 mil, 40-50 mil at 110-120

Under 20 mil if we staying around 90 (which is the JR MO)

So the question is, how committed are they to spending on this team?

We have not run a payroll over 100 mil since 2015 and only 3 times since 2010, but mixed in their was an aggressive 129 mil payroll.

Maybe I am underestimating their commitment to spend, but I just don't know
Why is under 90 JR's MO? He's been well over that in years the team has been attempting to compete. 30-40M over it regularly. That was also several years ago and payrolls have gone up since then. There is ample reason/evidence to believe the Sox will be at $120M or higher this season and $140-150M isn't out of the question.

Of course that will depend on what FA are available and decide to sign here.

Edit: They have been "around 90M" once. Last time they were seriously under $100M prior to the rebuild was 2014 and prior to that it was 2005. Even in 2015 and 2016 they were pushing $120M to start the season.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.co...tion/?team=CHA
  #29  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:18 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Why is under 90 JR's MO? He's been well over that in years the team has been attempting to compete. 30-40M over it regularly. That was also several years ago and payrolls have gone up since then. There is ample reason/evidence to believe the Sox will be at $120M or higher this season and $140-150M isn't out of the question.

Of course that will depend on what FA are available and decide to sign here.

Edit: They have been "around 90M" once. Last time they were seriously under $100M prior to the rebuild was 2014 and prior to that it was 2005. Even in 2015 and 2016 they were pushing $120M to start the season.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.co...tion/?team=CHA
http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

I don't know where you are getting once -

Around 90 mil (so I am using a range of 81-99 mil, within 9 mil either way) - 2019, 2017, 2014, 2012
Under - 2018
Over - 2016, 2015, 2013, 2011

I think its a pretty fair statement. The numbers I am using are slightly lower as they are opening day payrolls and also don't include numbers such as deferred comp or player incentives. Your site includes those (so like, next year it is counting the 1 mil owed to Yonder).

Also, we have been under the league average payroll since 2012. The only time frame we consistently redlined spending over the average was immediately following the world series. Then after a big 2011 we saw payroll slashed in 2012 and have been under league average, usually significantly, ever since.
  #30  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:21 AM
central44 central44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Why is under 90 JR's MO? He's been well over that in years the team has been attempting to compete. 30-40M over it regularly. That was also several years ago and payrolls have gone up since then. There is ample reason/evidence to believe the Sox will be at $120M or higher this season and $140-150M isn't out of the question.

Of course that will depend on what FA are available and decide to sign here.

Edit: They have been "around 90M" once. Last time they were seriously under $100M prior to the rebuild was 2014 and prior to that it was 2005. Even in 2015 and 2016 they were pushing $120M to start the season.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.co...tion/?team=CHA
All I know is, stuff costs more in 2020 than it did in the mid 2000's, and if Reinsdorf isn't going to run a modern payroll appropriate for the current decade, none of what the Sox have done/plan to do is going to matter.

Sox fans have not even had a mediocre team since 2012. And the fanbase has been on board with that after seven rough seasons. But now they have young players with star potential already on the roster, earning service time. They have a few more who will be up in April. And they have a ridiculously low payroll which gives them tons of space to fill the needs they do have. Money isn't an excuse--it's time to build a team that can go into 2020 hoping to compete in a playoff race.
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