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  #61  
Old 07-07-2017, 11:22 AM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
Garfein just tweeted that the Brewers are looking for an SP. I wonder if Brinson would be on the table.

Would love to send Q to the Brewers not only because their system has lots to choose from, but also for the damage it could do to the North Siders.
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  #62  
Old 07-07-2017, 11:32 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
By saying they were lucky, you are absolutely taking something away from them. Just as easily, you could say they were unlucky in 2003 and 2004. That was a great team (2005) and built upon the late 90s farm system, culminating a solid five year run by the team beginning with the 2000 AL Central title. I'm not sure how any fan who watched the team could see it any other way.
There's always an element of luck in a team's success, but to use a quote Lip is fond of: luck is the residue of design.

The stars did align for the 2005 White Sox, but they were a really good team in 2006 too, they just ran out of gas. That core of players made the playoffs again in 2008 and had another run in 2010. They were alway a piece or two short though.
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  #63  
Old 07-07-2017, 11:32 AM
RockJock07 RockJock07 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Here's who I think will get traded before the deadline (and my guess to their destinations):


Robertson and Jennings to Washington,
Frazier and Swarzak to Boston,
Holland to NYY, and
Quintana to Houston (though I have a sinking feeling he may end up on the North Side).


Melkey stays for now. Anyone else with predictions?
I think Holland and Melkey would likely only be cash dumps or C level prospects at best. Both are rentals anyways.

Cubs make a ton of sense for Q. They want controllable pitching but what do they want to give up. Their struggles this season have been both SP and offense. Lester and Hendricks are only SP's they have under contract for next season.
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  #64  
Old 07-07-2017, 11:39 AM
RockJock07 RockJock07 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Avi still has a ways to go to prove he's star worthy.


You've committed to a rebuild; see it through.
Yeah and and they will be absolutely gross to watch the next few years as these vets get traded away.

The Cubs and Astros punted on SEVERAL seasons to set up current success. There are no guarantees but being bad is the way to go.
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  #65  
Old 07-07-2017, 11:56 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Yeah and and they will be absolutely gross to watch the next few years as these vets get traded away.

The Cubs and Astros punted on SEVERAL seasons to set up current success. There are no guarantees but being bad is the way to go.
The starting pitching will get very ugly- but I think Cabrera and Frazier are very replaceable.

An outfield of "The Garcias", Engel, Hansen should be interesting.

Davidson, Anderson, Sanchez/Moncada, Abreu as the infield is OK.

Catching will be ugly until Collins or Skoug are ready.

Starting rotation will be awful- basically the current staff w/out Q- and until Giolito or Lopez or Fulmer (if ever) are ready...that will be very ugly. Shields could be our #2 starter in 2018. Let that soak in for a minute.
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  #66  
Old 07-07-2017, 12:18 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
By saying they were lucky, you are absolutely taking something away from them. Just as easily, you could say they were unlucky in 2003 and 2004. That was a great team (2005) and built upon the late 90s farm system, culminating a solid five year run by the team beginning with the 2000 AL Central title. I'm not sure how any fan who watched the team could see it any other way.
Brian:

They were lucky in the sense that they couldn't keep that success going, it was an outlier. Couldn't even make the playoffs again until 2008. I don't mean winning the series again either, I mean just getting back to the playoffs in consecutive seasons. And then of course everyone saw what happened in 2007.

I see your point though.

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 07-07-2017 at 05:49 PM.
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  #67  
Old 07-07-2017, 12:20 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Story on Milwaukee's interest in Q and Sonny Gray:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/ml...ay-and-others/
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  #68  
Old 07-07-2017, 01:59 PM
EMachine10 EMachine10 is offline
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Heyman put together some trade possibilities

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/ins...ense-deadline/

Q, Kahnle, Robertson, Swarzak, and Frazier all involved. These are just hypothetical trades, but Heyman is fairly dialed in and this might give a rough estimate of what we can look for.

--Mods: I guess throughout the offseason and this season the Clubhouse has become a little bit of What's the Score (perhaps throughout the rebuild). Feel free to move if necessary.
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  #69  
Old 07-07-2017, 02:37 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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If the Astros were getting Kahnle with Quintana, then I would want a third piece back from them. Someone with some power, like A.J. Reed or Colin Moran.
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  #70  
Old 07-07-2017, 02:47 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Brian:

They were lucky in the sense that they couldn't keep that success going, it was an outlier. Couldn't even make the playoffs again until 2008. I don't mean winning the series again either, I mean just getting back to the playoffs in consecutive seasons. And them of course everyone say what happened in 2007.

I see your point though.
This century, teams that sustain their success have been the outliers.

The Giants have won the World Series three times in this decade and finished the next seson with a losing record. They went to the postseason last year and will finish with a losing record this year. The Red Sox had a losing record after their most recent World Series win. After winning in 2013, they finished 2014 with a worse record than the White Sox, which ended up being heartbreaking for the White Sox because the Red Sox with the No. 7 pick selected the player the White Sox wanted at No. 8.

Calling the 2005 team a fluke, in any sense, is a petty insult.

The White Sox played in what was recognized as the toughest division in baseball at the time, led their division from the beginning through the end of the season and went 11-1 in the postseason.

The fact that they won 90 games the next year and finished with the fifth-best record in the league after playing an unbalanced schedule from what was considered the strongest division in baseball (the Indians were the popular pick in 2005 and 2006, but it was the White Sox and Tigers that went to the World Series) does not make them a fluke.

The fact that the Tigers finished third in the AL East in 1985 and have not won a World Series since 1984 does not make the 1984 Tigers a fluke.
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  #71  
Old 07-07-2017, 03:33 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
This century, teams that sustain their success have been the outliers.

The Giants have won the World Series three times in this decade and finished the next seson with a losing record. They went to the postseason last year and will finish with a losing record this year. The Red Sox had a losing record after their most recent World Series win. After winning in 2013, they finished 2014 with a worse record than the White Sox, which ended up being heartbreaking for the White Sox because the Red Sox with the No. 7 pick selected the player the White Sox wanted at No. 8.

Calling the 2005 team a fluke, in any sense, is a petty insult.

The White Sox played in what was recognized as the toughest division in baseball at the time, led their division from the beginning through the end of the season and went 11-1 in the postseason.

The fact that they won 90 games the next year and finished with the fifth-best record in the league after playing an unbalanced schedule from what was considered the strongest division in baseball (the Indians were the popular pick in 2005 and 2006, but it was the White Sox and Tigers that went to the World Series) does not make them a fluke.

The fact that the Tigers finished third in the AL East in 1985 and have not won a World Series since 1984 does not make the 1984 Tigers a fluke.

I would never in a million years call the 2005 Chicago White Sox a fluke and consider them one of the best teams in my lifetime. The wire to wire in a very good division and league and the 11-1 in post season proves that. Now how this dysfunctional organization assembled this great team, probably is what I consider a fluke.
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  #72  
Old 07-07-2017, 05:37 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If the Astros were getting Kahnle with Quintana, then I would want a third piece back from them. Someone with some power, like A.J. Reed or Colin Moran.
The way that Gurriel has picked up 1B so well makes Reed more expendable.

Doubt the Astros are moving both Tucker and Martes. They wouldn't in the offseason and seeing how each prospect has had success at a higher level makes that even less probable.

Also, winning 58 games with 5 starters on the DL makes them a lot less desperate to add.
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  #73  
Old 07-07-2017, 07:11 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Catching will be ugly until Collins or Skoug are ready.
Is the catching ugly now?
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  #74  
Old 07-07-2017, 08:59 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I've been thinking more about the Sox position player development.

It's not that the Sox haven't developed position players, particularly when they take their time with them. They developed Yolmer Sanchez, Marcus Semien, Eduardo Escobar, Adam Engel, etc.

It's that these players are fringe major leaguers, who either belong as utility players or are your "worst" starter, and should hitting in the bottom third of the order. You can't build a team when the only position players you develop are of this type.

When was the last time the Sox developed a true middle-of-the-order run producer or leadoff hitter? Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez? How about drafting and developing a great hitter? Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura? Or a position player who brings value with the bat even if he shouldn't hit third or fourth? Joe Crede and Aaron Rowand?

This is where the failures of highly-touted prospects like Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Gordon Beckham, Jared Mitchell, and Courtney Hawkins, hurt so much, and why it is critical that draftees like Tim Anderson, Jake Burger, Gavin Sheets, and Zack Collins, and acquired prospects like Moncada and Robert, turn into solid hitters.

If we can develop a solid core of 4-5 home grown hitters, at least two of whom truly belong in the middle of the lineup, this rebuild will be in much better shape and Hahn will have surplus from which to trade to fill holes.
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  #75  
Old 07-07-2017, 10:20 PM
WisSoxFan WisSoxFan is offline
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Being in Wisconsin I've been hearing the Brewers have interest in Q. I have no idea what they have in the minors so I don't know if they're a viable candidate as a trade partner.
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