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  #121  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:16 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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I'm ready for Coop to hang it up and Richard Dotson to take the pitching coach job.
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  #122  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:58 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
I didn't catch Sunday's game - what was Giolito's velocity?

I have more faith in Giolito than Fulmer for dumb reasons based mostly on him being taller and his former prospect ranking. At this point, the results are pretty similar. Both can't seem to throw strikes but Fulmer is missing a lot more bats than Gio. I guess my point is that there's no reason why one should be penciled in as a future bullpen guy over the other. At least not based on stats. It's entirely possible that neither are in the rotation if/when this team is ready to compete. Could be that it's Hansen, Rodon, Kopech, Dunning, Lopez or some FA they sign.

It's frustrating but prospects in MLB bust all the time so I can't say that I'm surprised. The good news is that a lot of their top prospects are playing at or exceeding expectations in the minors and some other prospects have emerged and might move into the top 100.
They havent had enough time to have busted yet. I want know how they are pitching after 45 or even 60 starts. There's room for Kopech and a couple more, by the time Gio and Lopez make 45 starts, hopefully some of the next wave will get their crack if, as is probable, it will be necessary
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  #123  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:12 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Because there is no one better to take his place and the organization would rather have him up here working on his mechanics with Coop. Not that difficult to understand.

Sure it is. Maybe you send him down and have another person work with him?


Why leave a kid out there to struggle to get through what the organization said he mastered in spring training?
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  #124  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:36 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
I'm ready for Coop to hang it up and Richard Dotson to take the pitching coach job.

I'm 100% in agreement. Time for a new voice.
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  #125  
Old 05-19-2018, 08:10 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Not sure if he's done for the night tonight but he's turned in a quality start so far with 6IP giving up three runs, two earned. Nice night.
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  #126  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:21 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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Gio doesn't give up a lot of hits when he finds the plate. Issue is that he also doesn't k many either even when he does..
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  #127  
Old 05-19-2018, 11:32 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
I'm 100% in agreement. Time for a new voice.
JR loves him, both are New Yorkers...not happening.
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  #128  
Old 05-20-2018, 04:30 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
JR loves him, both are New Yorkers...not happening.

Gotta love these organizations that grant positions for life.
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  #129  
Old 05-20-2018, 07:11 AM
Maximo Maximo is offline
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JR loves him, both are New Yorkers...not happening.
Just wondering......has any other team looking to fill a vacancy ever asked the White Sox for permission to talk with Don Cooper?
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  #130  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:03 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by wxkid23 View Post
Gio doesn't give up a lot of hits when he finds the plate. Issue is that he also doesn't k many either even when he does..
I know this is going to sound like sacrilege but, I actually think strikeouts are overrated. If a pitcher can consistently induce weak contact, I think that's just as good as a strikeout and could potentially save a pitcher's arm.

And I get that a strikeout takes defense out of the equation, but there's a reason a pitcher has seven guys behind him.
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  #131  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:05 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
Just wondering......has any other team looking to fill a vacancy ever asked the White Sox for permission to talk with Don Cooper?
About a decade ago the Yankees wanted to hire him.

Iím glad the Sox kept him.

I get questioning a managerís in-game decisions or a GMís personnel decisions.

But very few of us have one tenth of the knowledge of a major league pitching coach about pitching, and itís laughable and pathetic how many fans think they know more than their favorite teamís pitching coach.
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  #132  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:15 AM
ricker182 ricker182 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I know this is going to sound like sacrilege but, I actually think strikeouts are overrated. If a pitcher can consistently induce weak contact, I think that's just as good as a strikeout and could potentially save a pitcher's arm.

And I get that a strikeout takes defense out of the equation, but there's a reason a pitcher has seven guys behind him.
Interesting take. There are really good pitchers that aren't strikeout guys. Good control can trump overpowering stuff.

They just seem to be rarer than good pitchers that are strikeout guys with overpowering stuff.

When I'm looking for a good pitcher I want to see a guy that has a strikeout pitch. A guy that can consistently produce swings and misses will almost always be successful.
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  #133  
Old 05-20-2018, 09:41 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
But very few of us have one tenth of the knowledge of a major league pitching coach about pitching, and it’s laughable and pathetic how many fans think they know more than their favorite team’s pitching coach.
Just to be clear: I do not know more than Don Cooper about pitching. What is the average tenure of a PC? How often do they carry over from manager to manager?

I am sure every MLB pitching coach has knowledge. That being the case, why question any of them? Why replace any of them?

I do know that the philosophy that this pitcher or that pitcher can be "fixed" when evaluating talent for trades or drafts is risky. I certain cases the results here have not been so good. I am certain that the overconfidence in certain staffers has led to risks being taken by or GM or scouts. Those risks have not shown they've paid off, to date, by on the field results.

What I also know is that there are a helluva lot of good pitching coaches with different philosophies and different methods. Some within this organization. Maybe it is time to hear what they have to say.

Last edited by Grzegorz; 05-20-2018 at 09:54 AM.
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  #134  
Old 05-20-2018, 09:45 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I know this is going to sound like sacrilege but, I actually think strikeouts are overrated. If a pitcher can consistently induce weak contact, I think that's just as good as a strikeout and could potentially save a pitcher's arm.

And I get that a strikeout takes defense out of the equation, but there's a reason a pitcher has seven guys behind him.
It totally agree as long as those seven behind him are good defensively.
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  #135  
Old 05-20-2018, 10:26 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is online now
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Just to be clear: I do not know more than Don Cooper about pitching. What is the average tenure of a PC? How often do they carry over from manager to manager?

I am sure every MLB pitching coach has knowledge. That being the case, why question any of them? Why replace any of them?

I do know that the philosophy that this pitcher or that pitcher can be "fixed" when evaluating talent for trades or drafts is risky. I certain cases the results here have not been so good. I am certain that the overconfidence in certain staffers has led to risks being taken by or GM or scouts. Those risks have not shown they've paid off, to date, by on the field results.

What I also know is that there are a helluva lot of good pitching coaches with different philosophies and different methods. Some within this organization. Maybe it is time to hear what they have to say.
There are recent young pitching success stories to draw on that would argue the exact opposite. Buehrle, Garland, Sale, Quintana, all were coached by Cooper. There are also several lesser talents who maxed out under Cooper and several older pitchers who when they came to the Sox had their best success under his tutelage.

Now obviously the young pitchers this season are not off to a great start, but there is ample reason to believe Cooper will make the most of whatever talent comes his way regardless of the early season struggles this year.
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