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  #16  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:22 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Nothing that a dozen good free agents can’t solve (Although I would suggest hiring an outside consultant for the talent evaluation aspect in actually picking free agents).
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:27 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by DubuqueSox View Post
That's 23-42 since the all-star break. We still could finish with 95 losses. Unreal.

I don't understand what we actually get by moving up a spot in the draft. We don't draft very well anyhow. But what we're doing now at the MLB level is continue to lose, and that type of atmosphere is difficult to break. Twice we had the lead in extra innings, and we still lost. It's going to be tough to turn this around in one season, because these guys are becoming accustomed to blowing games.
The atmosphere will change by default when guys like Dylan Covey and Ross Detwiler are not getting the ball every 5th day. Any losing culture that may have developed over this rebuild sure does not seem to be rubbing off on Moncada, TA, or Eloy.

And the 23-42 record since the break is not unreal in the slightest. All signs pointed to a 2nd half collapse, and that is exactly what happened.

My biggest fear is that this organization, one that takes great pains to point out how much it ignores analytics and “goes with the gut,” will use analytics as a P.R. talking point to justify keeping Renteria. I can totally see a future article or podcast coming out where Merkin or Garfein lobs a softball question at Hahn or Kenny, and the pre-scripted answer will be: “Well, we knew that there would be regression in the 2nd half of the season, but we’re focusing on the great job our coaching staff did in getting this team to play well above expectations in the 1st half.”
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:55 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by DubuqueSox View Post
That's 23-42 since the all-star break. We still could finish with 95 losses. Unreal.

The first half was a mirage, mostly. Tons of luck and winning well beyond their production. The second half is on par with the production, and we probably should have an overall record more reflective of the second half.

The few major league core pieces look fine. We're still in line to get to .500 by 2021 or 2022.
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  #19  
Old 09-18-2019, 08:24 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
It's the new normal. Unfortunately it all comes down to the organization as a whole and the culture it instills.
Yeah, I don't think this is really a thing. Baseball more than any other team sport is made up of the performance of individuals. There are bad players on this team, no doubt. There are also some very good players, and the "losing culture" hasn't affected their performance. Get rid of the bad players and the wins will come.
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  #20  
Old 09-18-2019, 08:28 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by insp View Post
And yet there are many on this forum who want the team to do poorly solely for the draft position. If the team drafts poorly, then what's the point in wanting your team to lose games?
If you really believe the team drafts poorly, all the more reason for you to want them to get a top pick. There's a lot more margin for error the farther up you pick. 6 vs. 7 vs. 9 might not be a big deal. But then again, it might be.

Quote:
This manager also has made poor use of his bullpen. There is no designated long reliever, no bullpen ace and no relief pitchers were allowed to pitch even so much as 2 full innings. Finally did our starter really do so poorly that he absolutely had to be yanked given how burnt out our bullpen has become?
How is any of this Renteria's fault? The bullpen is thin, that's on the GM. But there isn't much a point in investing in the bullpen during a rebuilding season, right? At least we're finding out more about guys like Ruiz. Maybe they'll grow from the experience or maybe we'll never see them again.
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2019, 08:34 AM
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Chez Chez is offline
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I'm not buying this organizational "culture of losing" theory. The Sox have been down by five runs in two of the last three games and have rallied to take late leads in both games (which they ultimately lost). There's a talent shortage not an effort shortage.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2019, 08:55 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Usually no post game threads at all when the Sox win, but the dark clouds come out in full force after midnight for games like this. The Eloy Player of the Week thread had crickets for for about a day before people started chiming in with my prodding.

The Sox are a DOZEN free agents away from competing? Do people really believe that? More of the same old hyperbolic ridiculousness that's become a staple of this site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The first half was a mirage, mostly. Tons of luck and winning well beyond their production. The second half is on par with the production, and we probably should have an overall record more reflective of the second half.

The few major league core pieces look fine. We're still in line to get to .500 by 2021 or 2022.
It'll take until 2022 for this team to make it to .500? Come on.
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:41 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Finishing worse than Pittsburgh and Colorado is a good thing.
We may finish worse than Seattle, too. Whether people like that idea or not, it's a fact.

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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
This team is perfecting the art of having all the players that matter perform well, while the guys that don’t matter perform just bad enough to improve their draft position. It’s damn impressive.
Seriously. Looking at the box score, lots of key rebuild pieces had great nights while the goats who coughed up the game were mostly guys who aren't part of this team's long term plans anyway (the exception being Colome).

Anderson: 4 hits (HR)
Jimenez: 3 hits (2B)
Moncada, Abreu, McCann: 2 hits each
Collins: 1 for 4 with a HR.
Bummer and Marshall with 1.1 and 1.2 scoreless innings respectively.
The only big downside of a player with any future with this team was Colome blowing the save in the 10th.

Did anyone notice Collins's HR, by the way? It was a total BOMB! Way out to the OF concourse. It looked like it was going into orbit. Zack's bat seems to be coming around of late. People might notice this if they could peel their eyes off of his season batting avg. Of course, why would anyone note this when we can just piss and moan about the stiffs like Ruiz and Detweiler who have no future with this team and act like this team has no talent whatsoever going forward.
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:49 AM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubuqueSox View Post
That's 23-42 since the all-star break. We still could finish with 95 losses. Unreal.

I don't understand what we actually get by moving up a spot in the draft. We don't draft very well anyhow. But what we're doing now at the MLB level is continue to lose, and that type of atmosphere is difficult to break. Twice we had the lead in extra innings, and we still lost. It's going to be tough to turn this around in one season, because these guys are becoming accustomed to blowing games.
Agree 100%, the team since the All Star break has been pathetic. A culture of losing is continuing and the JR regime has to start signing quality free agents if the rebuild is going to succeed. I don't see too many players in our farm system right now that are going to be a big help except for maybe Vaughn.
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:52 AM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
I could make better use of our bullpen, starting with Aroldis as bullpen ace. He's not on the team? Sorry. Colome is either a victim of burnout or statistical regression, depending on how old you are. Who on the current roster do you want as bullpen mainstays? I can't think of any.
It's not like Colome got rocked. He gave up a single and then the guy came around to score on a bunt, ball that McCann should have knocked down, and a lazy sac fly. Only his 2nd blown save all season too.
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  #26  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:52 AM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Agree 100%, the team since the All Star break has been pathetic. A culture of losing is continuing and the JR regime has to start signing quality free agents if the rebuild is going to succeed. I don't see too many players in our farm system right now that are going to be a big help except for maybe Vaughn.
Luis Robert just won minor league player of the year
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:54 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Agree 100%, the team since the All Star break has been pathetic. A culture of losing is continuing and the JR regime has to start signing quality free agents if the rebuild is going to succeed. I don't see too many players in our farm system right now that are going to be a big help except for maybe Vaughn.
I assume you're just glossing over Madrigal and Robert since they are expected to be on the team sometime next season?
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  #28  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:19 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Nothing that a dozen good free agents can’t solve (Although I would suggest hiring an outside consultant for the talent evaluation aspect in actually picking free agents).
Yep, with 2020 looking to feature only Moncada, TA, Eloy, Abreu, Robert, Madrigal, McCann/Collins, Giolito, Cease, and Kopech in the everyday lineup/rotation, this team is going to need a dozen good free agents to fill all the gaping holes.
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  #29  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:20 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
I'm not buying this organizational "culture of losing" theory.
That's because it's talk-radio-caller bull****.
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  #30  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:56 AM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I assume you're just glossing over Madrigal and Robert since they are expected to be on the team sometime next season?
No I'm counting on them, in fact I cant wait to see Madrigal on the team, he may wind up being my favorite Sox player since Nellie Fox.
What this team needs help is with the the pitching staff and right field plus some decent bench players. I don't want to ever see Palka, Cordell, Jay and Castillo in a Sox uniform again. I'm still on the bubble on Sanchez and L. Garcia.
I know Renteria has been dealt lousy hands since his time as Sox manager but I don't think I would be in the minority wishing the Sox let him go and bring in a manager who knows how to win.
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