White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 07-22-2017, 02:33 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 21,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
I have quit the fight against bunting. Math doesn't seem to matter to bunting crowd
As long as it matters to a manager, that would be fine by me.
__________________
Ridiculousness across all sports:

(1) "You have no valid opinion because you never played the game."
(2) "Stats are irrelevant. This guy just doesn't know how to win."
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 07-22-2017, 07:54 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 2,771
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
I have quit the fight against bunting. Math doesn't seem to matter to bunting crowd
Math huh?
__________________
“There were a few hard rules, but everybody was unique, and he understood that. George’s great strength was he didn’t overcoach. There’s no place for panic on the mound.” - Jim Palmer on George Bamberger “Arms and the man,” Sports Illustrated, April 19, 2004
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07-22-2017, 07:59 PM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Jesus Christ. This post ****ing broke my heart. To have the opinions of certain posters more or less force a mod and long-time fan to believe his world view on how baseball works is wrong just reeks. It's like he never really changed his mind on his own. Rather, he was heavily influenced by people calling his mindset dated. I'm for this rebuild myself, but I would be feeling very empty and hollow if I were on the giving end of this exchange and the resulting consequence. But who is anyone to stand in the way of evolving thoughts in baseball? It's always either adapt or stay behind these days, isn't it?
I didn't tell him he should stop being a fan. I was just completely confused by the view he (and others here) have on rebuilding and how it made absolutely no sense. The White Sox were gonna be bad. No matter what. Would you rather be bad with no hope in sight or with light at the end of the tunnel in a few years? Again, I gotta ask, how many more years did they want them to waste and see them do what they've been doing only for it to end badly? When would it click for those people that maybe it's time for a change? That's what I wanted to know. Especially since, through all of it, they're STILL seeing a bad season. Those were bad seasons. For as much as they are complaining about how bad they are now it's not like they were THAT much better the previous 4 seasons and, overall, for much of the past 12 years.

It's not only a reality of baseball today that rebuilding is necessary. They've always happened. It's not some new, unique radical thing that the Sox are doing. Maybe because it's been so long since they've actually committed to doing it that it throws people off but it really shouldn't. Not as much to the point where they're getting upset about other people being happy about them doing well in the moves the team is making in rebuilding. That's ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 07-23-2017, 11:02 AM
johnny bench johnny bench is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Just thinking what is going on in the minds of the guys still on the team. Granted these guys are professionals but human nature has to come into play. Are they going to hustle their rear ends off and maybe risk an injury for an organization that is more than likely trying to get rid of them. Do these guys even want to be on the team knowing they are going to be really bad for 2 more years. I guess the answer might be is to play my butt off so some other team wants me so I can get away from this disaster.
In the week of play since the Q trade was made, the White Sox haven't won and the Cubs have lost once.

Can't blame the players for thinking that the club has given up on them. Maybe that's why Anderson doesn't run the bases.

In that light, I am rethinking the sequence in which the Sox chose to trade off their players. Maybe the Sox had to trade the more emotional guys, Sale and Eaton, first in order to maximize their value. If the first guy to get traded was Q for example, Sale and Eaton might have, I said might have, seen the hand writing on the wall and no longer give 100%.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:27 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 10,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny bench View Post
Can't blame the players for thinking that the club has given up on them. Maybe that's why Anderson doesn't run the bases.

The contract he signed didnt help much. No real incentive at this point with a contract and no one breathing down his neck.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:41 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 6,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny bench View Post
In the week of play since the Q trade was made, the White Sox haven't won and the Cubs have lost once.

Can't blame the players for thinking that the club has given up on them. Maybe that's why Anderson doesn't run the bases.

In that light, I am rethinking the sequence in which the Sox chose to trade off their players. Maybe the Sox had to trade the more emotional guys, Sale and Eaton, first in order to maximize their value. If the first guy to get traded was Q for example, Sale and Eaton might have, I said might have, seen the hand writing on the wall and no longer give 100%.
In terms of the "club giving up on them"- the club gave up on 2017 last winter when they announced they were rebuilding and moved Sale and Eaton- no handwriting on the wall required. The market/return is what determined the timing of the trades- nothing else.
__________________
TomBradley72
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/334c0314
2017 Record: 2-2
2005-2016 Record: 56-44
MLB Parks Visited: 25, MiLB Parks Visited: 18
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 07-23-2017, 05:37 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 2,771
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny bench View Post
Can't blame the players for thinking that the club has given up on them. Maybe that's why Anderson doesn't run the bases.
These are professional ballplayers. You don't have to be Nostradamus to see the direction the team was going.

As long as they're in a White Sox uniform and draw a check from JR no one has given up on them.

This is a time of great opportunity: t's time for these guys to seize it.

As for Anderson assertion that's pure conjecture.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 07-23-2017, 07:00 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 21,974
Default

As always, the amateur psychologists are ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 07-24-2017, 01:39 AM
JB98's Avatar
JB98 JB98 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Posts: 29,876
Default

They haven't give up; they are just historically bad. You couldn't win games at the Triple-A level with the current pitching staff.

There are 67 games left. They won't win more than 20.
__________________
JB's attendance record:
2004: 14-5; 2005: 16-8; 2006: 19-10; 2007: 8-12; 2008: 15-7; 2009: 6-13; 2010: 12-11; 2011: 9-8; 2012: 11-7; 2013: 8-9; 2014: 7-9; 2015: 10-10; 2016: 13-10; 2017: 8-5; Total: 156-124.
Next game: April 2018

R
ead my baseball blog: http://thebaseballkid98.blogspot.com/

Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 07-24-2017, 06:27 AM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny bench View Post
In the week of play since the Q trade was made, the White Sox haven't won and the Cubs have lost once.

Can't blame the players for thinking that the club has given up on them. Maybe that's why Anderson doesn't run the bases.

In that light, I am rethinking the sequence in which the Sox chose to trade off their players. Maybe the Sox had to trade the more emotional guys, Sale and Eaton, first in order to maximize their value. If the first guy to get traded was Q for example, Sale and Eaton might have, I said might have, seen the hand writing on the wall and no longer give 100%.
Why would they willingly play part in potentially sabotaging their future contracts and change for the worse the views about them that other prospective teams that are interested have? Just....think for a second before you say things like this.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:47 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 16,912
Default

It should be on Renteria to get the best of these players every day. It's a crappy situation he is in, but he promised to change the mentality of this franchise when he came in. He knew we were going to be horrid for years, and it is on him to have each player busting their ass like they are contending for something. They are, in reality. They are contending for the future.

We are most definitely going to be a joke for the next two or three years, but this is where you build a culture. Success isn't just what you do when you have the talent. Success has to be instilled in the crappier times. In the times when you know you are the joke of the league. Play for the badge. Play for your career. Play for your fans. Play smart. Play hard. Etc.

If we can't get these guys up to play professional sports, then we really won't succeed when the rest of these guys come up.

Sure, it's a simple point to make, but it's not about guys being loose in the clubhouse, or guys having great chemistry. This is about this ball club being part of an organization that respects itself by being professional throughout.

You are playing a game that thousands would kill to play for the rest of their lives. I wish I could. I know many of my friends wish they could, too. It's a career, sure, but there needs to be a level of self- respect when going in there. If guys like Abreu, Avisail, Melky, etc fall off the map as this season ends, then we are truly in a deeper hole then I expected. It's at that point that you know that the players could care less about their performance, self-respect, etc. It's at that point that they would rather be elsewhere.
__________________
http://arsenalist.com/video/?id=xh2dx6

Greatest Arsenal goal I have ever witnessed. Chills to this day watching it.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 07-24-2017, 06:10 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 2,771
Default

Renteria is in a great situation: expectations are low, he has a chance to showcase his strengths (teaching) and he has a job.

Last edited by Grzegorz; 07-24-2017 at 06:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:42 PM
johnny bench johnny bench is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Roarman View Post
Why would they willingly play part in potentially sabotaging their future contracts and change for the worse the views about them that other prospective teams that are interested have? Just....think for a second before you say things like this.
Did you see Chris Sale's final start of last season? I did and he was not a credit to himself or the team in that game. Not to mention the scissors incident. And it's not just Sale. How about Robinson Cano not running out the hot smash that got stuck in Holland's mitt? Players undermine their credibility with their actions on and off the field all the time.

I have no idea why they would do these things, I just know that they do. Feeling that the team doesn't care about a season because it traded off all valuable player assets is as likely a reason as any other.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:15 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie
Posts: 5,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I didn't respond to Roarman last night, because I needed to think about this whole thing. Why am I so out of step with everyone on this whole thing?

I came to the conclusion that you guys are right. You have adapted to and accepted the reality of baseball today, and I haven't. I also concluded that I'm not going to be able to. A nagging thought that's been rattling around for some time now sort of came into focus for me. I simply don't like what baseball has become, and it's not ever going back to what I did like.

This wasn't an easy conclusion for me. White Sox baseball has been a part of the fabric of nearly every summer for me for well over 60 years. I think that's why I had trouble confronting that I don't like it very much right now; it's hard when you think of yourself in a certain way to decided that's just not you anymore.

I don't like that the economics of the game have made it that only a very few teams can keep their best players, and have to trade them "before they just walk away" for the nine-figure contract. I don't like that when you do trade your best players, you don't receive "talent for talent" anymore, where you get an equally proven major leaguer in return, because that doesn't solve the economic issue for you. You receive potential talent for talent, and hope that the potential works out to be as good as what you gave up for it some time down the road.

I don't like that the game has become (in my opinion) very one-dimensional. Power hitting is the grail, without much regard to defense or the subtleties of the game. Strike out 150 times or more a year? No problem as long as you hit 30 homers. A player like Nellie Fox would have trouble making a major-league roster today, much less get an MVP award.

So, I've realized that I'm going to have to find something else to occupy my attention during the summer. I don't know what that will be yet, but I'm not in a big rush to decide. I'll still watch Sox games the rest of this year, because I've already paid my MLBTV subscription and I'm too cheap to just leave it. But I've already gotten to where I don't really care when they lose, and I usually "multi-task" during the games, reading or doing a crossword puzzle. And if something else comes up, I won't feel like I'm missing something because I'm not watching the game. I can't see myself renewing my MLBTV subscription next year, though.

So, now that I've analyzed myself, there will be no more negativity from me about all of this. Thanks for jolting me into getting this sorted out for myself.
Yeah me too. It's like in high school when the "cool kids" ignored you. I have one small departure. For the time being at least I'm not watching them. My masochistic tendencies will only go so far. The current "team" makes me long for Syd O'Brien and Jerry Janeski. I lived in Pittsburgh and watched their first of two decades of futility. For me this is deja vu all over again.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.