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  #16  
Old 01-05-2005, 07:03 PM
OEO Magglio OEO Magglio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giallo
I'm not sure how you can say the Cubs are screwed. They weren't bad last year. Disappointing, yes. Bad, no (until the last 2 weeks of the season that is). They did have a better record than the Sox and were in the playoff race until the end. The Cubs haven't made significant additions yet, but they have retained Nomar, Walker, and Rusch, three of their better players last season who were eligible for free agency. They got rid of Alou and Merker, who although productive on paper, were a big part of the dumb baseball and bad chemistry that caused the Cubs to be distracted much of the season. They still however, have Sosa and Dusty, the other side of the dumb baseball/bad chemistry equation. The Cubs offense is solid, and to be honest, probably better than the Sox. They have Lee, Ramirez, Nomar, Walker, Barrett, Patterson, and Sammy who are all solid offensively and, for the most part, equal or superior to their Sox counterpart (with the exception of Konerko). They also have a strong starting rotation even with Rusch or a rookie as their #5. The bullpen has not been upgraded, and defense is so-so. I don't see them cutting payroll. They will likely be near $100 million to start the season. If they make no more additions, they have financial flexibility to add a key player or two at the trading deadline. Just my opinion, but I think they are far from screwed and have the potential for a good season if the top of their rotation stays healthy.
The cubs don't have a solid offense. They have some solid players but together they don't create a good offense, sound familiar?? There offense is so similar to what the sox have had the last couple of seasons, they can't manufacture runs and if in the race they'll get shutdown exactly like they did last year at the end of the season. There bullpen is still awful, period. There rotation is good but by god is it overhyped, you'd think they had the best starting rotation in the history of baseball. As of right now the cubs are the 2nd place team in their division and if Beltran and Clemens return they are the third place team.
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2005, 09:47 PM
wdelaney72 wdelaney72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giallo
I'm a Chicago baseball fan. I follow both the Cubs and Sox. I'm more of a lurker than a poster. My posts are often about the Cubs to offer some balance. I actually find the Cubs hatred here quite amusing.
Amen.

While I don't particularly like the Cubs or most of their audience, their uniform still says "Chicago" on it.
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2005, 10:58 PM
SoxFan76 SoxFan76 is offline
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WSI is "TOTALLY BIASED"

Hence the Cub hatred. Of course some people do tend to take it too far. As for the fact that they still have the name "Chicago" on their jerseys, well there lies the problem.
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2005, 08:42 AM
Baby Fisk Baby Fisk is offline
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Sorry, but a "Chicago Baseball Fan" is one of three things:

a) A Perpetual Bi-Malcontent (why piss on one team when you can piss on two?)

b) A Shameless Frontrunner (why stick with one team if the other is on a winning tear? "I'm with whoever wins!")

c) Unable to sleep most nights because of that fencepost lodged between their legs.
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2005, 09:35 AM
Giallo Giallo is offline
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Interesting. So Sox fans are not allowed to have rational opinions about the Cubs and vice versa.

If this is a Sox-only board, you may want to let the moderators know. It seems like most of the "Talking Baseball" posts somehow revolve around the Cubs. If people are going to post about them, it seems very boring just to senselessly bash them.

As for the Cubs chances in their division, the off season isn't over, but the other teams in the Cubs division have not exactly loaded up. Sure the Cards got Mulder and Eckstein (and Alomar!), but they lost Renteria, Womack, Woody Williams, Klein, and Mathany and Morris will be out the start the year. The Astros may lose Beltran and Clemens and have lost Kent and Wade Miller. Plus Berkman tore his ACL in the offseason and will miss time. I think the Cards have to be the favorite, but I would be stunned if they repeated their success from last season. The Cubs don't have a bad team, and I think they will be in the race until the end.
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  #21  
Old 01-06-2005, 09:43 AM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giallo
Interesting. So Sox fans are not allowed to have rational opinions about the Cubs and vice versa.

If this is a Sox-only board, you may want to let the moderators know. It seems like most of the "Talking Baseball" posts somehow revolve around the Cubs. If people are going to post about them, it seems very boring just to senselessly bash them.

As for the Cubs chances in their division, the off season isn't over, but the other teams in the Cubs division have not exactly loaded up. Sure the Cards got Mulder and Eckstein (and Alomar!), but they lost Renteria, Womack, Woody Williams, Klein, and Mathany and Morris will be out the start the year. The Astros may lose Beltran and Clemens and have lost Kent and Wade Miller. Plus Berkman tore his ACL in the offseason and will miss time. I think the Cards have to be the favorite, but I would be stunned if they repeated their success from last season. The Cubs don't have a bad team, and I think they will be in the race until the end.
So - the losses of Renteria, Klein, & Mike Matheny being offset by the upgrade from Womack to Eckstein and the enormous upgrade from Williams to Mulder are enough to make up the gigantic difference between the teams, and that with the Cubs having lost Clement & Alou and not really replaced them? Heck - even if they get Burnitz, they've gone backwards, and still have a bigger clubhouse headache than ever with Sosa looking more and more likely to return?



This was supposed to be a rational argument?
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  #22  
Old 01-06-2005, 10:02 AM
Giallo Giallo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24
So - the losses of Renteria, Klein, & Mike Matheny being offset by the upgrade from Womack to Eckstein and the enormous upgrade from Williams to Mulder are enough to make up the gigantic difference between the teams, and that with the Cubs having lost Clement & Alou and not really replaced them? Heck - even if they get Burnitz, they've gone backwards, and still have a bigger clubhouse headache than ever with Sosa looking more and more likely to return?



This was supposed to be a rational argument?
I would actually call it a steep downgrade from Renteria to Eckstein; a slight downgrade from Womack to Alomar; and a big upgrade from Williams to Mulder. Also, the Cards bullpen not only lost Klein, but also Colero and Haren in the Mulder trade. I believe the point of my post was to say that no one in the Cubs division has significantly upgraded. To this point, at best you can say that the three top teams are about the same, and perhaps a little worse off than they were last year (pending Beltran and Clemens decisions). I also said that the Cards are the favorite, but the Cubs will be competitive. Despite losing Clement, who was inneffective down the stretch, they still have a top starting rotation. As mentioned above by someone else, their offense is a collection of good players, but not necessarily a good offense. I don't think the loss of Alou is that great and partially offset by a full season of Nomar.

Last edited by Giallo; 01-06-2005 at 10:21 AM.
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2005, 10:16 AM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giallo
I would actually call it a steep downgrade from Renteria to Eckstein; a slight downgrade from Womack to Alomar; and a big upgrade from Williams to Mulder. Also, the Cards bullpen not only lost Klein, but also Colero and Haren in the Mulder trade. I believe the point of my post was to say that no one in the Cubs division has significantly upgraded. To this point, at best you can say that the three top teams are about the same, and perhaps a little worse off than they were last year (pending Beltran and Clemens decisions). I also said that the Cards are the favorite, but the Cubs will be competitive.
What you miss is that the Cubs as currently constituted are significantly downgraded by replacing Clement with Rusch (and Rusch in the 'pen with????), and Alou with Hollandsworth/Dubois. Factor in the Cards being light-years ahead of them last year, and I don't see the Cubs coming within 5-8 games of the division.
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2005, 10:45 AM
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PaleHoseGeorge PaleHoseGeorge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giallo
Interesting. So Sox fans are not allowed to have rational opinions about the Cubs and vice versa.

If this is a Sox-only board, you may want to let the moderators know. It seems like most of the "Talking Baseball" posts somehow revolve around the Cubs. If people are going to post about them, it seems very boring just to senselessly bash them.

As for the Cubs chances in their division, the off season isn't over, but the other teams in the Cubs division have not exactly loaded up. Sure the Cards got Mulder and Eckstein (and Alomar!), but they lost Renteria, Womack, Woody Williams, Klein, and Mathany and Morris will be out the start the year. The Astros may lose Beltran and Clemens and have lost Kent and Wade Miller. Plus Berkman tore his ACL in the offseason and will miss time. I think the Cards have to be the favorite, but I would be stunned if they repeated their success from last season. The Cubs don't have a bad team, and I think they will be in the race until the end.
Abstract thinking is difficult for you, isn't it? No problem.


White Sox fan site----> for Sox fans
Cubs fan site----------> for Cubs fans

If you're a fan of more than one team, visit more than one site to talk about how great they are.

Ipso facto, don't bitch if you get carved up around here talking smack about how great the Cubs are. That's not what this website if for. If Sox Fans wanted to talk about how great the Cubs are, they would find plenty of places besides WSI to do so. You should follow their lead.

We have several Cubs fans posting here that understand the concept quite well. Since you're having a problem, we'll let you hash it out inside Roadhouse.

I don't need to explain what the next step is, right?


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  #25  
Old 01-06-2005, 11:41 AM
The Critic The Critic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24
What you miss is that the Cubs as currently constituted are significantly downgraded by replacing Clement with Rusch (and Rusch in the 'pen with????), and Alou with Hollandsworth/Dubois. Factor in the Cards being light-years ahead of them last year, and I don't see the Cubs coming within 5-8 games of the division.
The only thing I see in the Cubs' favor is that the Cardinals kinda snowballed last year, had a lot of things go right for them, and that might not happen again in '05. Factor in the losses in their bullpen and the downgrade ( as I see it, anyway ) of Eckstein and Robbie Redbird, and I can definitely see a 3-team race in the NL Central. I'd LOVE for the Birds to run away and hide again, but I just don't think so.
If the 'Stros can somehow re-sign Beltran and convince Clemens to come back, I still think they will be in the thick of it. If they can't do either, then I think it's the Cubs and Cards battling for the division.
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2005, 12:11 PM
Palehose13 Palehose13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdelaney72
Amen.

While I don't particularly like the Cubs or most of their audience, their uniform still says "Chicago" on it.
If I could stomach the picture of the guy puking, I would post it. 'Cause that's how this sentiment makes me feel. Pffft..."Chicago" baseball fan. I don't think there are many "NY" baseball fans. They seem to be one way or the other too.
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  #27  
Old 01-06-2005, 12:22 PM
Baby Fisk Baby Fisk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palehose13
If I could stomach the picture of the guy puking, I would post it. 'Cause that's how this sentiment makes me feel. Pffft..."Chicago" baseball fan. I don't think there are many "NY" baseball fans. They seem to be one way or the other too.
...unless they are one of the previously cited personality types.
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  #28  
Old 01-06-2005, 01:22 PM
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PaleHoseGeorge PaleHoseGeorge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palehose13
If I could stomach the picture of the guy puking, I would post it. 'Cause that's how this sentiment makes me feel. Pffft..."Chicago" baseball fan. I don't think there are many "NY" baseball fans. They seem to be one way or the other too.
I can't wait for Giallo and SuperSteve to start their own website, "Chicago Baseball Fan Interactive."

Here are the top issues for discussion...

* Favorite shade of beige to paint your walls?
* Favorite flavor of vanilla ice cream?
* Wonder Bread or Butternut: pros and cons of each white bread?

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  #29  
Old 01-06-2005, 01:28 PM
fquaye149 fquaye149 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I can't wait for Giallo and SuperSteve to start their own website, "Chicago Baseball Fan Interactive."

Here are the top issues for discussion...

* Favorite shade of beige to paint your walls?
* Favorite flavor of vanilla ice cream?
* Wonder Bread or Butternut: pros and cons of each white bread?

and yet homefish's posts continue to run rampant...does this just prove that we hate chicago fans more than cubs fans?

i'll drink to that... i suppose
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  #30  
Old 01-06-2005, 01:34 PM
Baby Fisk Baby Fisk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fquaye149
and yet homefish's posts continue to run rampant...does this just prove that we hate chicago fans more than cubs fans?

i'll drink to that... i suppose
In a weird way, Homefish is amusing because his Cub-gloom is comically extreme. It's like every morning Homefish wakes up and decides "today must be the end of the world and the Cubs will win in the end". If his family had a coat of arms, it might be emblazoned with the motto "The Cubs Will Eventually Beat Us, So Why Bother Getting Excited?". I hassle him a lot and he never whines, so I respect him for that.

So, yeah, "Chicago" fans are infinitely worse than "Cub" fans.
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