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  #1  
Old 05-19-2019, 06:32 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Default I don't want Vizquel as a manager

I think the Sox will have to change managers before they're legitimate contenders, but I don't think the heir apparent (Vizquel) is the answer. He's far too interested in small ball, and he just made four different managerial mistakes in the 7th inning of a tie game. See if you can spot them:

- Nate Nolan led off with a hit.
- Vizquel pinch-ran Luis Robert for Nolan.
- Mitch Roman bunted into a forceout.
- Laz Rivera singled.
- Luis Basabe grounded into a double play.
[end of inning]
- Hunter Schryver enters the batting order, batting eighth.
- Luis Robert leaves the game.

First of all, Vizquel called for a sacrifice. Which is just giving away an out.

Second, he pinch-ran Robert ahead of the sacrifice. Robert has great speed and should have been able to steal second without wasting an out. If Vizquel was planning to bunt all along, he should have used backup infielder Ramon Torres as the pinch runner.

Third, he wasted Robert's bat. That's crazy, since Vizquel allowed Roman (now hitting .124) and Basabe (.153) to come to bat in the inning.

And fourth, by pinch running for his catcher, he lost the DH because Yermin Mercedes is the only other catcher on the roster.

But I'm not basing this opinion on one bad inning, or even one bad game. These are Vizquel's tendencies, and they don't belong in modern baseball. His Barons have been really bad this year, both on the road and in their offense-suppressing home park.
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2019, 06:50 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Can GameDay be right? In the ninth, with 1 out and a man on first, Vizquel allowed the pitcher Luis Martinez to hit.

Martinez singled, but that doesn't make it a good move. Tiquan Forbes was available to pinch-hit and the third baseman Michalczewski had just made the out. So he could have used Forbes and then had the new pitcher bat in Michalczewski's spot.

Last edited by A. Cavatica; 05-19-2019 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:53 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Second and third, one out, Vizquel allows Mitch Roman (.124) to bat. Roman hits a sac fly. Barons win.

Vizquel is a genius.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I think the Sox will have to change managers before they're legitimate contenders, but I don't think the heir apparent (Vizquel) is the answer. He's far too interested in small ball, and he just made four different managerial mistakes in the 7th inning of a tie game. See if you can spot them:

- Nate Nolan led off with a hit.
- Vizquel pinch-ran Luis Robert for Nolan.
- Mitch Roman bunted into a forceout.
- Laz Rivera singled.
- Luis Basabe grounded into a double play.
[end of inning]
- Hunter Schryver enters the batting order, batting eighth.
- Luis Robert leaves the game.

First of all, Vizquel called for a sacrifice. Which is just giving away an out.

Second, he pinch-ran Robert ahead of the sacrifice. Robert has great speed and should have been able to steal second without wasting an out. If Vizquel was planning to bunt all along, he should have used backup infielder Ramon Torres as the pinch runner.

Third, he wasted Robert's bat. That's crazy, since Vizquel allowed Roman (now hitting .124) and Basabe (.153) to come to bat in the inning.

And fourth, by pinch running for his catcher, he lost the DH because Yermin Mercedes is the only other catcher on the roster.

But I'm not basing this opinion on one bad inning, or even one bad game. These are Vizquel's tendencies, and they don't belong in modern baseball. His Barons have been really bad this year, both on the road and in their offense-suppressing home park.
It was Robert's day off, he probably only wanted to use him as a PR. Not speaking to the rest. Some I agree with some I don't but the Robert thing I understand.
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:15 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
It was Robert's day off, he probably only wanted to use him as a PR.
That theory doesn't hold water. If resting Robert was important, Vizquel should have used Torres as the pinch runner, since he was planning to bunt anyway.
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:12 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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In the minor leagues, on a team with numerous highly-ranked prospects among whom are some outfielders who have been struggling at the plate in their first 6 weeks at the level, in a league where offense is down, in a tight game, I don’t necessarily fault Vizquel for playing small ball.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:17 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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No way am I writing off Vizquel as a candidate for manager over something like this- so much goes into managing a minor league team- development vs. winning, what's going with specific players at any given time, etc.

He's also only in his 2nd full season as a manager- so I'll allow for a learning curve as well.

Omar Vizquel will be a major league manager within the next few seasons- it's up to the White Sox whether it's on the southside or somewhere else, I would take him ahead of every WSox manager since LaRussa excluding Torborg and "early" Ozzie Guillen (2004-2009).
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:44 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
No way am I writing off Vizquel as a candidate for manager over something like this- so much goes into managing a minor league team- development vs. winning, what's going with specific players at any given time, etc.

He's also only in his 2nd full season as a manager- so I'll allow for a learning curve as well.

Omar Vizquel will be a major league manager within the next few seasons- it's up to the White Sox whether it's on the southside or somewhere else, I would take him ahead of every WSox manager since LaRussa excluding Torborg and "early" Ozzie Guillen (2004-2009).
I agree with almost everything you wrote. My one quibble is the dates of Ozzie’s “early” or what I would call “effective” years. I think Ozzie was a fantastic manager in 2004 and 2005. And I also think that winning the World Series made him stubborn and arrogant, and starting in 2006 his effectiveness in many facets declined.

I think Vizquel is particularly well suited to maximize the potential of Anderson, Moncada, and Madrigal, who - along with Eloy and Robert - ought to be the core of the offense for the better part of the next decade. If the lineup can produce more often than not, and if they are playing good defense (I realize that’s at best an open question with Eloy), they shouldn’t be in too many games that have to come down to bunts.
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:07 AM
Zisk77 Zisk77 is offline
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You guys do realize minor league manager's number one priority is not winning games, but getting prospects ready to play on the big club? Therefore they have them bunt, hit and run, hit behind the runner etc. because the big club wants their players to be able to do that...They really do not care if they win the game.
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:47 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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The way Birmingham has sucked this year to get solid wood on the ball, I don't blame small ball with that bunch.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:59 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
The way Birmingham has sucked this year to get solid wood on the ball, I don't blame small ball with that bunch.
Go for the straight steal instead of the bunt to 2nd. If it succeeds, then go ahead and try to bunt the runner to 3rd to set up a sac fly situation.



2nd base is not worth the out, especially when it's not the 9th inning.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Go for the straight steal instead of the bunt to 2nd. If it succeeds, then go ahead and try to bunt the runner to 3rd to set up a sac fly situation.



2nd base is not worth the out, especially when it's not the 9th inning.
It was the bottom of the 8th in a tie game. If that turns into a run then it's possibly the last AB the team might have. Ror all intents and purposes it was the same thing as doing it in the 9th.

I do agree that I don't generally care for bunting to second and giving up an out, especially with a fast baserunner. Put him in motion and try to get contact.
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:54 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
It was the bottom of the 8th in a tie game. If that turns into a run then it's possibly the last AB the team might have. Ror all intents and purposes it was the same thing as doing it in the 9th.

I do agree that I don't generally care for bunting to second and giving up an out, especially with a fast baserunner. Put him in motion and try to get contact.
A.Cavatica said it was the 7th inning.
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
A.Cavatica said it was the 7th inning.
I sit corrected, I don't see a huge difference though. Playing for a run late in a game runs are hard to come by is generally okay though I do agree bunting a man to second is not really a good use of an out especially with a speedy runner.
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:10 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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June 2018, 670 The Score Radio.com

Vizquel explained that his managerial philosophy relies a fair deal on small ball, which he had success with as a player himself, aiming to hit a ground ball to the opposite field or laying down a bunt to move over a baserunner. For him, today’s launch angle philosophy should only be implemented for three-four-five hitters at their discretion.

"I’m a little guy," Vizquel said. "I like the squeeze plays. I think creating plays where you can manufacture runs can be really important. You pay attention to the little details. When you do that, you see the game from a different way sometimes.

"Now you talk about launch angle, and you see lead-off guys trying to hit home runs. They’re not taking pitches."
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