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  #46  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:22 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
The issue is that those guys are on the 25 man roster. If you remove them somone else has to be put on the 25-man roster. It doesn't free up space to stash more not ready for the majors players. It only forces them to rush someone else from the bottom 15 onto the major league squad.
Can you ever move a player from the 25-man roster to the 40-man without him having to clear waivers?

Can you ever have an empty spot on your 25-man roster?

Since they have very little upside and are never going to be part of a contending team, you could just release a Tilson or a Minaya and never look back. Replacements are a dime a dozen. If you have to fill those 25-man spots with players who aren't ready to stick in the majors, then just use cannon fodder making the major league minimum.
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  #47  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:29 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile
The issue is that those guys are on the 25 man roster. If you remove them somone else has to be put on the 25-man roster. It doesn't free up space to stash more not ready for the majors players. It only forces them to rush someone else from the bottom 15 onto the major league squad.
I guess the silver lining is that there is no official 25-man roster until Opening Day. Everyone on the 40-man may be kept until final cuts are made.

Some guys are bound to get hurt in Spring Training. 60-day DL stints for more serious injuries also open up spaces on the 40-man. Kopechís roster spot is one guaranteed available space after final cuts are made.
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  #48  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:33 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Can you ever move a player from the 25-man roster to the 40-man without him having to clear waivers?

Can you ever have an empty spot on your 25-man roster?

Since they have very little upside and are never going to be part of a contending team, you could just release a Tilson or a Minaya and never look back. Replacements are a dime a dozen. If you have to fill those 25-man spots with players who aren't ready to stick in the majors, then just use cannon fodder making the major league minimum.
I’m don’t think there’s technically a 25-man roster/active roster in the offseason.

I looked at the Sox roster on the MLB At Bat app, and also the Sox web site, and both show the “Active Roster” and the “40-Man Roster” have exactly the same 38 players.

During the season, a player who has options remaining can be shuttled on and off the Active roster, while remaining on the 40-man roster.

A player with no options remaining can’t be removed from the active roster unless he’s released/designated for assignment/outrighted.
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  #49  
Old 11-22-2018, 11:45 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Iím donít think thereís technically a 25-man roster/active roster in the offseason.

I looked at the Sox roster on the MLB At Bat app, and also the Sox web site, and both show the ďActive RosterĒ and the ď40-Man RosterĒ have exactly the same 38 players.

During the season, a player who has options remaining can be shuttled on and off the Active roster, while remaining on the 40-man roster.

A player with no options remaining canít be removed from the active roster unless heís released/designated for assignment/outrighted.
Thanks for the clarification. I admit I didn't take the off-season into account with my comment, but the point remains if the Sox cut those players someone else has to fill those slots on the active roster come spring. In addition, if they protect some of these players who are exposed now and then have to remove them from the 40-man when they fill those active roster slots it exposes those players to waivers which makes it easier for another team to claim as they don't have to find room on their active roster for them the way they do with rule-5 draftees so it's much more likely a player would be lost in that situation than under their current status, IMO.
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  #50  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:06 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Ian Clarkin back with the White Sox. So, why did the Cubs claim him only to release him 6 days later
https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/...ers-from-cubs/
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  #51  
Old 11-26-2018, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77
Ian Clarkin back with the White Sox. So, why did the Cubs claim him only to release him 6 days later
https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/...ers-from-cubs/
They didnít release him. They did the exact same thing as the White Sox; they tried to sneak him through waivers and outright him to the minors if he cleared.
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  #52  
Old 11-27-2018, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
They didnít release him. They did the exact same thing as the White Sox; they tried to sneak him through waivers and outright him to the minors if he cleared.
And this is a perfect example of why it's better to expose players to the rule 5 draft which is a once a year thing than to have to cut guys off the 40 man and hope no one else picks them up.
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  #53  
Old 11-27-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
The White Sox should keep Danny Mendick over Charlie Tilson? Come on people, do a little research....
But what's Tilson's value - 5th OF?
yes, he would be claimed if dumped, but all we'd lose is a Charlotte player; we can't trade him for anything.
Is he better than Kevin Smith?
Hahn has loaded up the 40 man with AAAA players. He keeps trading for these guys. Heck he just traded for an organizational minor leaguer. Somebody has to be on the 40 man - I just wouldn't risk any sort of prospect for the Tilsons of the world.
Meanwhile I'm waiting for the young core as we approach a generously designated year 3.

Last edited by Tragg; 11-27-2018 at 10:34 PM.
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  #54  
Old 11-27-2018, 08:34 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Is he better than Kevin Smith?
He'll never make a movie as funny as "Clerks".
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  #55  
Old 11-28-2018, 02:09 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
But what's Tilson's value - 5th OF?
yes, he would be claimed if dumped, but all we'd lose is a Charlotte player; we can't trade him for anything.
Is he better than Kevin Smith?
Hahn has loaded up the 40 man with AAAA players. He keeps trading for these guys. Heck he just traded for an organizational minor leaguer. Somebody has to be on the 40 man - I just wouldn't risk any sort of prospect for the Tilsons of the world.
Meanwhile I'm waiting for the young core as we approach a generously designated year 3.
Honestly, I don't see anyone being able to gauge Tilson's value as of yet. We're talking about a 25 year old with exactly 108 at bats in the major leagues with a track record of success in the minors. Kevan Smith is a league average catcher at age 30. I'd be much more apt to keep a player 5 years younger with equal talent.

There's also not much to be said for the Banuelos/Yurchak trade. At least Banuelos was able to reach the major leagues, the odds of Yurchak ever reaching are slim to none. It's a meh trade not worth splitting hairs over.

There is no one of value exposed off the 40 man, so it's really not an issue in 2018/2019. The rebuild will continue with more guys getting their shot and more talent added with high draft picks and the ability to sign IFAs again.
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  #56  
Old 11-28-2018, 08:24 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
But what's Tilson's value - 5th OF?
yes, he would be claimed if dumped, but all we'd lose is a Charlotte player; we can't trade him for anything.
Is he better than Kevin Smith?
Hahn has loaded up the 40 man with AAAA players. He keeps trading for these guys. Heck he just traded for an organizational minor leaguer. Somebody has to be on the 40 man - I just wouldn't risk any sort of prospect for the Tilsons of the world.
Meanwhile I'm waiting for the young core as we approach a generously designated year 3.

It may be snowy and bone-chilling cold out there, but at least the narrative is in full mid-season form.
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  #57  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:11 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Honestly, I don't see anyone being able to gauge Tilson's value as of yet. We're talking about a 25 year old with exactly 108 at bats in the major leagues with a track record of success in the minors. Kevan Smith is a league average catcher at age 30. I'd be much more apt to keep a player 5 years younger with equal talent.
Absolutely.
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  #58  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:14 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
But what's Tilson's value - 5th OF?
yes, he would be claimed if dumped, but all we'd lose is a Charlotte player; we can't trade him for anything.
Is he better than Kevin Smith?
Hahn has loaded up the 40 man with AAAA players. He keeps trading for these guys. Heck he just traded for an organizational minor leaguer. Somebody has to be on the 40 man - I just wouldn't risk any sort of prospect for the Tilsons of the world.
Meanwhile I'm waiting for the young core as we approach a generously designated year 3.
Yes, because other teams have MLB-quality players all the way up to man 40 on their roster.

We haven't even hit the 2 year mark yet of the Chris Sale trade. It sounds like you can hardly wait for this to be year 3 (of failure) like you're waiting for Christmas. To each their own, but I seriously wonder why some fans are so miserable about their own team.....always so eager to spin every move and timeline in the worst possible way and chomping at the bit to call the whole rebuild effort a failure.

....and "generously designated"? GMAB. Repeating this same old crack over and over again doesn't make it any more true.
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  #59  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:22 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Yes, because other teams have MLB-quality players all the way up to man 40 on their roster.

We haven't even hit the 2 year mark yet of the Chris Sale trade. It sounds like you can hardly wait for this to be year 3 (of failure) like you're waiting for Christmas. To each their own, but I seriously wonder why some fans are so miserable about their own team.....always so eager to spin every move and timeline in the worst possible way and chomping at the bit to call the whole rebuild effort a failure.

....and "generously designated"? GMAB. Repeating this same old crack over and over again doesn't make it any more true.
Nice rebuttal!

Tragg: I admire your passion and your commitment. But I know you know that our 40-man roster has lots of AAAA players specifically we have (hopefully) bottomed our in this multi-year tear down and rebuild project. A significant share of the best - if unfinished - talent in our organization does not yet require 40-man roster protection because those players are too soon removed from their draft class. It would be silly to cut Tilson in order to put, for instance, Rutherford or Madrigal or Robert on the 40-man roster.
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  #60  
Old 11-30-2018, 04:14 PM
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Tilson never had anything better than an average year in the minors beyond rookie ball. And he's getting worse - .577 in Charlotte in 270 at bats.
BTW, the trade for him was the first move of the rebuild.

The prospects from Sale and Eaton have now had 2 full years with the Sox. In the last 5 years, they've drafted 3rd, 8th, 10th, 11th and 4th. If the young core doesn't present itself in the next year or 2, when will it? Will it ever?
I root for the White Sox. It makes me happy.
It's hard for me to maintain a positive glow about the short term prospects without tangible evidence of growth and improvement, given the history of this FO (peaked at 78 wins in what was a much easier task than this total rebuild).

Last edited by Tragg; 11-30-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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