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  #16  
Old 08-13-2017, 07:31 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Barchetta View Post
I've been here since 2005 and I've never heard or read that either. Now that the bonds for Tropicana have been paid off, if the Rays leave, the city of St. Pete is no longer left with the bill, just an empty ballpark.

Personally, I would like to see the Rays stay in the Tampa Bay market as they have strong television ratings and it represents the largest overall market coverage area in Florida. Miami is a bigger city, however Tampa, St. Pete, Clearwater and the surrounding areas including Brandon, etc. is larger.

I like the idea of the Rays moving to an outdoor, retractable roof-type ballpark in downtown Tampa near Channelside and then perhaps moving their spring training back to St. Pete to help soften the blow of moving the team across the bay.

Tropicana in no way is a nice ballpark. Sure, some of the local St. Pete retirees like the idea of buying a good seat any day, any time and watching a MLB game in 72 degree AC, but for me, the place lacks any kind of positive atmosphere. That's probably why TV ratings are so strong.
Red: Bush's comments were based on the Rays breaking their lease and leaving the state. Read it myself many times that's all I can tell you. It was a warning to MLB that the state of Florida intended to make sure Tampa Bay lived up to their lease agreement.

I know nothing about how that impacts the bonds.
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  #17  
Old 08-19-2017, 05:38 PM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
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The bonds and lease are two separate issues, yet inter-related. Prior to 2016, if the Rays opted to leave, they would have had to justify not paying off the bonds which financed the ballpark (dome) plus the issue of breaking their lease.

Now that the bonds are paid off and the ballpark (dome) is paid for, all that is left is the lease that the Rays signed which has them locked into Tropicana through 2027 or 10 more seasons. There has been some progress made in relocation as in late 2016, a vote passed allowing the Rays to start looking for locations in Tampa, which is located Hillsborough County. Before the vote occurred, the team was forbidden to even look at potential new stadium locations outside of Pinellas County, because of the structure of the lease.

However, since the Rays currently play in St. Petersburg, which is located in Pinellas County and even though the vote passed to look outside Pinellas County, it is not the only obstacle. If the Rays decide to move to Tampa at any time during the current lease, it would cost them $42 million dollars. That dollar figure goes down every year until the end of the current stadium lease, which ends in 2027.

Personally, I think the current ownership led by Stuart Sternberg has done a great job in marketing this team. Everyone, including the mayor of St. Pete, know that the current ballpark is not working. I don't care how many coats of paint, free parking, fan-friendly incentives they offer, it simply does not work. TV ratings are great, but fan attendance isn't as most people from Tampa and the northern and eastern areas simply don't want to drive around the bay in order to go see a ballgame. The Lightning sell out on a regular basis and are located at Channelside in downtown Tampa which is ripe for further sports & entertainment development.
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  #18  
Old 08-20-2017, 05:52 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
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Originally Posted by Red Barchetta View Post
The bonds and lease are two separate issues, yet inter-related. Prior to 2016, if the Rays opted to leave, they would have had to justify not paying off the bonds which financed the ballpark (dome) plus the issue of breaking their lease.

Now that the bonds are paid off and the ballpark (dome) is paid for, all that is left is the lease that the Rays signed which has them locked into Tropicana through 2027 or 10 more seasons. There has been some progress made in relocation as in late 2016, a vote passed allowing the Rays to start looking for locations in Tampa, which is located Hillsborough County. Before the vote occurred, the team was forbidden to even look at potential new stadium locations outside of Pinellas County, because of the structure of the lease.

However, since the Rays currently play in St. Petersburg, which is located in Pinellas County and even though the vote passed to look outside Pinellas County, it is not the only obstacle. If the Rays decide to move to Tampa at any time during the current lease, it would cost them $42 million dollars. That dollar figure goes down every year until the end of the current stadium lease, which ends in 2027.

Personally, I think the current ownership led by Stuart Sternberg has done a great job in marketing this team. Everyone, including the mayor of St. Pete, know that the current ballpark is not working. I don't care how many coats of paint, free parking, fan-friendly incentives they offer, it simply does not work. TV ratings are great, but fan attendance isn't as most people from Tampa and the northern and eastern areas simply don't want to drive around the bay in order to go see a ballgame. The Lightning sell out on a regular basis and are located at Channelside in downtown Tampa which is ripe for further sports & entertainment development.
I also think the Rays would be successful with a new stadium in the Channelside district. I don't think they would draw 3 million a year but the Sox haven't either, came close in 1991 and 2006 but no cigar.
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  #19  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:02 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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I live in Florida now and have visited the Trop recently. It's actually not a bad facility. The big problem (as stated over and over) is location which is a good 15-20 minutes from downtown Tampa. The Lightning have no issue drawing 15-20k a game. Get the stadium in downtown Tampa near Amalie and they will draw respectable imo.
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:34 PM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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1.). I agree with Tampa needing to move away from the Trop.

2.) Do they have an owner willing to spend the money to build a stadium and upgrade the roster? With NY, Boston, Baltimore, and Toronto in the same division, that's their competition all willing to spend $160+ million on shooting for the AL East title and beyond. Basically you're trying to compete with less than half the $$$.
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  #21  
Old 08-23-2017, 01:45 PM
Herbal Herbal is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
As a Florida snowbird and a New England resident, ...
Question for the Tampa residents, how much does the snowbird factor impact the population in the area between the summer and the winter? Seems like football and hockey might do better, among other reasons, with a higher population in fall and winter.
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  #22  
Old 08-23-2017, 05:14 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
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Originally Posted by Herbal View Post
Question for the Tampa residents, how much does the snowbird factor impact the population in the area between the summer and the winter? Seems like football and hockey might do better, among other reasons, with a higher population in fall and winter.
St. Pete is more of a Snowbird town than Tampa. That plus places to the south of St. Pete like Bradenton, Sarasota and Venice are pretty big Snowbird towns.
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  #23  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:29 AM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I also think the Rays would be successful with a new stadium in the Channelside district. I don't think they would draw 3 million a year but the Sox haven't either, came close in 1991 and 2006 but no cigar.
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
1.). I agree with Tampa needing to move away from the Trop.

2.) Do they have an owner willing to spend the money to build a stadium and upgrade the roster? With NY, Boston, Baltimore, and Toronto in the same division, that's their competition all willing to spend $160+ million on shooting for the AL East title and beyond. Basically you're trying to compete with less than half the $$$.
I like the Rays ownership. They are fan-focused but hamstrung by the limits of the ball dome.

Like any new MLB ballpark, I'm sure a big piece will be corporate sponsorship rights. The Rays don't need (and shouldn't) build a 45,000 seat ballpark. Keep it smaller and intimate (35,000?) and build it near Channelside with the Tampa skyline in the backdrop. Anyone familiar with the area knows that the bay view from downtown Tampa is not exactly spectacular considering the fuel tanks, larger cargo ships, and other industrial components, so it's not like your overlooking sailboats like AT&T Park in San Francisco. No one is going to build more high-priced condos in downtown Tampa with that view so take advantage of the available land and complete the Channelside sports and entertainment development.

As to divisions, I personally would like to see the Rays move to the N.L. East in exchange for the Nationals moving to the A.L. East. While we're at it, then move the Brewers back to the A.L. Central in exchange for moving the Royals to the N.L. Central. I would really like the A.L. Central to bring back the SOX-Brewers rivalry and the SOX/Twins/Indians/Tigers/Brewers would be a fun division. St. Louis and Kansas City would be a better rivalry as well.

Last edited by Red Barchetta; 08-26-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:51 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Barchetta View Post
As to divisions, I personally would like to see the Rays move to the N.L. East, the Nationals move to the A.L. East and while we're at it, move the Brewers back to the A.L. Central in exchange for moving the Royals to the N.L. Central. I would really like the A.L. Central to bring back the SOX-Brewers rivalry and the SOX/Twins/Indians/Tigers/Brewers would be a fun division. St. Louis and Kansas City would be a better rivalry as well.
Interesting idea. The Nats' market size at least makes them competitive with the other AL East markets, and it sets up a nice rivalry with Baltimore.

I also like how you've created good small/mid-market geographically close intradividional rivalries like Rays-Marlins, Royals-Cardinals, and Sox-Brewers.
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  #25  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:41 PM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Interesting idea. The Nats' market size at least makes them competitive with the other AL East markets, and it sets up a nice rivalry with Baltimore.

I also like how you've created good small/mid-market geographically close intradividional rivalries like Rays-Marlins, Royals-Cardinals, and Sox-Brewers.
Thanks. I just miss the SOX-Brewers rivalry like it was during the Robin Yount era. Plus, I think the Brewers fans would enjoy not surrendering half their ballpark to Cub Nation every season. I like the regional rivalry models and would rather have teams compete in the same division vs. the long shot World Series match up. Just keep the cities which have two MLB teams; Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles (Anaheim) in separate leagues.

Last edited by Red Barchetta; 08-26-2017 at 06:53 PM.
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  #26  
Old 08-29-2017, 02:05 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Barchetta View Post
I like the Rays ownership. They are fan-focused but hamstrung by the limits of the ball dome.

Like any new MLB ballpark, I'm sure a big piece will be corporate sponsorship rights. The Rays don't need (and shouldn't) build a 45,000 seat ballpark. Keep it smaller and intimate (35,000?) and build it near Channelside with the Tampa skyline in the backdrop. Anyone familiar with the area knows that the bay view from downtown Tampa is not exactly spectacular considering the fuel tanks, larger cargo ships, and other industrial components, so it's not like your overlooking sailboats like AT&T Park in San Francisco. No one is going to build more high-priced condos in downtown Tampa with that view so take advantage of the available land and complete the Channelside sports and entertainment development.

As to divisions, I personally would like to see the Rays move to the N.L. East in exchange for the Nationals moving to the A.L. East. While we're at it, then move the Brewers back to the A.L. Central in exchange for moving the Royals to the N.L. Central. I would really like the A.L. Central to bring back the SOX-Brewers rivalry and the SOX/Twins/Indians/Tigers/Brewers would be a fun division. St. Louis and Kansas City would be a better rivalry as well.
If I remember correctly, the Royals were the first team given the option of moving to the NL in 1998. They said no and MLB approached Milwaukee next.

I doubt Milwaukee would want to go back to the AL. I seemed to remember at the time that a lot of Milwaukee fans were thrilled to go to the NL because of their memories of being an NL city with the Braves.
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  #27  
Old 09-04-2017, 01:10 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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The Rays have had four playoff appearances and four ninety plus win seasons in the last ten years. The Sox have had zero ninety win seasons and one playoff in the last ten. You have to go back twenty three years to find four Sox playoff appearances. If you're putting the Rays out of their misery, whens the post mortem on the Sox?
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  #28  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:31 AM
cub killer cub killer is offline
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The Rays have had four playoff appearances and four ninety plus win seasons in the last ten years. The Sox have had zero ninety win seasons and one playoff in the last ten. You have to go back twenty three years to find four Sox playoff appearances. If you're putting the Rays out of their misery, whens the post mortem on the Sox?
Don't kid about that, we're closer to that sad day than ever.
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Had to throw in this tidbit from our visit to the Trop on Saturday Night.
It was turn back the clock night with 1970s uniforms, so because of the 1970s theme about a half hour before the game, what do they throw up on the scoreboard, yep a 10 minute video on Disco Demolition night at Comiskey in 1979, I almost puked my Papa Johns pizza.
I'm one of the few Sox fans who are proud of that night. 70s rock rules, IMO, so I understand the rage of that night that the spotlight was being taken away from timeless music.

Not that I don't appreciate the BeeGees, Donna Summer, etc. But, as I understand it, they were drowning out many good bands, so it must have been frustrating.

To those who want regional realignment, why not go with the AL=Eastern Conference/NL=West idea that has been proposed.
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  #29  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:42 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Don't kid about that, we're closer to that sad day than ever.

I'm one of the few Sox fans who are proud of that night. 70s rock rules, IMO, so I understand the rage of that night that the spotlight was being taken away from timeless music.

Not that I don't appreciate the BeeGees, Donna Summer, etc. But, as I understand it, they were drowning out many good bands, so it must have been frustrating.

To those who want regional realignment, why not go with the AL=Eastern Conference/NL=West idea that has been proposed.
As long as we're proposing things how about contraction in the league, scale back the number of games played, get rid of the wild card, load the end of the season schedule with inter-division games and bring back the old-fashioned, conventional doubleheader: two games for a single-admission price.

I planned on going but I had to work being a big AL East Tiger fan. Disco demolition was a great promotional success but a huge disappointment on the game.
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  #30  
Old 09-14-2017, 01:25 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
As long as we're proposing things how about contraction in the league, scale back the number of games played, get rid of the wild card, load the end of the season schedule with inter-division games and bring back the old-fashioned, conventional doubleheader: two games for a single-admission price.

I planned on going but I had to work being a big AL East Tiger fan. Disco demolition was a great promotional success but a huge disappointment on the game.
If you mean eliminating teams, that'll never happen. If anything, Manfred wants to expand to 32 teams (once the Oakland and Tampa Bay ballpark issues are resolved).
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