White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:49 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago - Mayfair
Posts: 4,994
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Somewhere around 15 WAR for the duration of his initial team control would be nice. Maybe a 2ish WAR for the pre-arb years and a 3ish WAR for the arb years.
So basically a career 25'ish WAR player.

So if you were to look up how many #4 picks have achieved 25 WAR, the results give a different story about "justification". I eliminated all of the picks after 2012 as none of those players have had enough time in the majors and I also removed the players that did not sign.

10 out of 46: 22%

How about 15 WAR?

12 out of 46: 26%

10 WAR?

16 out of 46: 35%

To get half of the players, you have to drop all the way to 3.8 WAR for a career. While it remains to be seen if Madrigal can flourish in the majors, I'm pretty confident he will eclipse most #4 picks in his career. I am bullish on Madrigal because although he lacks todays' expected MLB power, he does everything else extremely well. Players are still able to generate value without the long ball. IMO the pick was easily justified.
__________________
<a href=http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3256 target=_blank>http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...achmentid=3256</a>

March 16, 2005 - Another happy Sox fan joins the party!
July 6, 2012 - 7 years later he's still part of it...
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:26 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
So basically a career 25'ish WAR player.

So if you were to look up how many #4 picks have achieved 25 WAR, the results give a different story about "justification". I eliminated all of the picks after 2012 as none of those players have had enough time in the majors and I also removed the players that did not sign.

10 out of 46: 22%

How about 15 WAR?

12 out of 46: 26%

10 WAR?

16 out of 46: 35%

To get half of the players, you have to drop all the way to 3.8 WAR for a career. While it remains to be seen if Madrigal can flourish in the majors, I'm pretty confident he will eclipse most #4 picks in his career. I am bullish on Madrigal because although he lacks todays' expected MLB power, he does everything else extremely well. Players are still able to generate value without the long ball. IMO the pick was easily justified.
Thanks for the perspective. IMO Madrigal has a pretty good shot at hitting even the higher marks (25 WAR), because his glove and bat-to-ball skills should give him a place on an MLB roster for a long time.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:47 PM
asindc asindc is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 9,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
So basically a career 25'ish WAR player.

So if you were to look up how many #4 picks have achieved 25 WAR, the results give a different story about "justification". I eliminated all of the picks after 2012 as none of those players have had enough time in the majors and I also removed the players that did not sign.

10 out of 46: 22%

How about 15 WAR?

12 out of 46: 26%

10 WAR?

16 out of 46: 35%

To get half of the players, you have to drop all the way to 3.8 WAR for a career. While it remains to be seen if Madrigal can flourish in the majors, I'm pretty confident he will eclipse most #4 picks in his career. I am bullish on Madrigal because although he lacks todays' expected MLB power, he does everything else extremely well. Players are still able to generate value without the long ball. IMO the pick was easily justified.
Just as Mohoney implied, all baseball GMs are chumps.
.
__________________
"I have the ultimate respect for White Sox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Red Sox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country." Jim Caple, ESPN (January 12, 2011)


"We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the (bleeding) obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." ó George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:59 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,437
Default

Assuming his defense is anywhere near what is advertised, Madrigal doesn't have to be THAT spectacular at the plate to be a 3 WAR player.
__________________
"Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but its nature is to be extravagant, and those who go so far as to stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only when they are ruined."
-- Thucydides
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:41 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Assuming his defense is anywhere near what is advertised, Madrigal doesn't have to be THAT spectacular at the plate to be a 3 WAR player.
WAR probably underestimates Madrigal's overall contribution to wins, because it doesn't take into account his "baseball IQ" and leadership traits, which are (reportedly) off the charts. Nobody yet knows how to quantify these things, but it's conceivable that they could be worth 1 win/year.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 01-23-2020, 02:03 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
....and who ever said that the Sox didn't believe Madrigal was destined to be better than players drafted after him? It's best to let this nonsense drop because soon we'll have a thread titled "Madrigal Positive Press" filled with 10 pages of one guy arguing that he was a terrible pick.
Yeah, because heaven forbid anyone goes against the hive mind about how super-awesome every single move Hahn makes is...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and letís fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 01-23-2020, 02:06 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
So basically a career 25'ish WAR player.

So if you were to look up how many #4 picks have achieved 25 WAR, the results give a different story about "justification". I eliminated all of the picks after 2012 as none of those players have had enough time in the majors and I also removed the players that did not sign.

10 out of 46: 22%

How about 15 WAR?

12 out of 46: 26%

10 WAR?

16 out of 46: 35%

To get half of the players, you have to drop all the way to 3.8 WAR for a career. While it remains to be seen if Madrigal can flourish in the majors, I'm pretty confident he will eclipse most #4 picks in his career. I am bullish on Madrigal because although he lacks todays' expected MLB power, he does everything else extremely well. Players are still able to generate value without the long ball. IMO the pick was easily justified.
I donít care about career WAR, just the seasons under team control.

Yes. Lots and lots of baseball draft picks bust. If youíll indulge me, Iím assuming that weíre already past that point with Madrigal. So yes, I would like something around a Gavin Floyd level of production.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 01-23-2020, 03:14 PM
doctorlecter's Avatar
doctorlecter doctorlecter is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Beverly
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I donít care about career WAR, just the seasons under team control.

Yes. Lots and lots of baseball draft picks bust. If youíll indulge me, Iím assuming that weíre already past that point with Madrigal. So yes, I would like something around a Gavin Floyd level of production.
To me, that justifies the extension now. We have the near-universally accepted view that he has the "lowest floor" of the current prospect group. He won't need Eloy or Robert money. Get him in the fold for Eaton money. And start your season right away. They're still below average for payroll this year. Do this, then, midseason, work on a Moncada extension if he keeps his production up. By next year, you'll know if Mazara is acceptable in RF. If not, go for Betts or Springer.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 01-23-2020, 04:00 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Evanston
Posts: 1,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
All I ever hear is that baseball is losing popularity because it's boring, isn't fun, and lacks personality. More locally, for years, I have also heard that the Sox were full of faceless players while the Cubs were full of household names. Now we have Eloy and Anderson injecting a ton of fun and enthusiasm into the game to go along with their talent and fans can't stand it. To each their own, but MLB shouldn't be marketed to the biggest curmudgeon fans out there.


I think Anderson did a great job last year of walking a fine line between celebrating and showing enthusiasm vs. showboating and taunting. He's drawn the ire of some of MLB's fun police players, but he's always had a good reply to them without coming off as an *******.
I think it's a generational thing. If I were to guess, most posters here are skew older. On social media, most fans seemed to love Anderson's theatrics - even those of other teams.

I don't think we can conclude from a few people here that "fans can't stand it." I've yet to meet a Sox fan that doesn't love Eloy, Yoan, TA, etc. They're a likable group.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 01-23-2020, 04:05 PM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 175
Default

No one can say for sure if Madrigal will be a star in the majors or not. But I'm betting on him. His previously mentioned "baseball IQ", fielding skills, and superb bat contact make me think we got a winner.
Some berate Nick's selection because of the lack of power. I can't count how many times I've seen baserunners stranded because our batter struck out. I want bat contact.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 01-23-2020, 04:59 PM
asindc asindc is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 9,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
No one can say for sure if Madrigal will be a star in the majors or not. But I'm betting on him. His previously mentioned "baseball IQ", fielding skills, and superb bat contact make me think we got a winner.
Some berate Nick's selection because of the lack of power. I can't count how many times I've seen baserunners stranded because our batter struck out. I want bat contact.
Amen to that.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 01-23-2020, 05:10 PM
slavko slavko is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: North Suburban
Posts: 8,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Keep in mind that much of this fun police stuff is thinly veiled. It's why you see a lot of the same people calling AJ Pierzynski "passionate" but then get all riled up when Tim Anderson shows passion as well.

And the Sheriff of the baseball fun police, Mr. Brian "Play the game the Right Way" McCann, was exposed as a huge cheater.

It's a conversation we should openly have when someone goes off the rails and spouts nonsense about players.
TA's showboating vs. AJ's showboating.....hmmmmm. AJ's was more like taunting, TA's is more like playing to the crowd. You decide which one's less desirable. Does TA care if he ends up hated by the baseball fraternity like AJ? Do we care? Do I care? Ahh, you can't beat fun at the old ballpark.
__________________
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:25 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 20,155
Default

How I feel after reading this thread a day later.
__________________
People are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:46 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
How I feel after reading this thread a day later.
This will help. Here's an interview of Madrigal at last week's hitter's camp:
https://southsidehitpen.com/2020/01/...nick-madrigal/
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:37 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,125
Default

The Sox don't have the mojo without Anderson in the lineup, that's all I know.
__________________
Fire Rinky Hahliams!!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.