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  #136  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:30 PM
fungo bat fungo bat is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
Can never have too many catchers. Play them all over the place if you have to. Plus it'll keep McCann on his toes, All-Star season be damned. It worked for NYY with Yogi, Elston, and Charlie Silvera, right?

Don't forget Johnny Blanchard and Jake Gibbs.
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  #137  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:33 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Anyone that thinks Grandal wont catch 130 games is dreaming. The Sox arent paying this kind of money for someone to DH and fill in at 1st.
Why burn him out in Year 1 of the deal when McCann is still here?

100 starts behind the plate is enough for any catcher north of age-30, especially when he needs to hold up for 4 more years.

Give Grandal 3 starters, give McCann 2, and use Collins to fill in the gaps.

I think this signing means that a full-time DH-only player is not on the radar, which is a-OK with me, if that is what was sacrificed to get Grandal. Grandal + DH roulette is much better than no Grandal + Castellanos or JDM.

Now just sign or trade for a single-year salary dump stopgap in CF or RF to contribute LH power. I would see who costs less in prospects between JBJ and Joc Pederson. Corey Dickerson or Kole Calhoun are free agent options.

In an ideal world, here is what the position player outlook would be:

Grandal
McCann
Collins
3 @ ~$24

Abreu
Yolmer, then Madrigal (probably some time after Memorial Day)
TA
Moncada
5 @ ~$30

Eloy
Robert (second or third week in April) or JBJ
Robert or Pederson or Calhoun or Dickerson
Engel
4 @ ~$15

This leaves a single position player spot unfilled. Maybe a single-season salary dump trade can bring in another versatile player for the infield. Either that, or just have Mendick fill the spot for the league minimum.

Best of all, though, is that about $21 million drops off the books after 2020 in McCann, Yolmer, and the outfield addition. Add another ~$12 to that, and maybe, just maybe, you’re in Mookie Betts territory.

2020 adds Bumgarner and Grandal, 2021 adds Betts.

That is how you supplement a homegrown core.
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  #138  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:34 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is online now
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Under normal circumstances I agree with this premise, but in the case of Pederson filling RF, I think he’s fine even if it’s just a 2020 stopgap.

If Rutherford, Adolfo, Basabe, or Walker have a great 2020 and look MLB-ready by September, you can let Pederson go for 2021. If not, just re-sign him.
It makes a lot of sense for a move like this. It should't cost you any of your elite prospects and it doesn't handcuff you for the future.

Plus another solid LH bat to add to the mix.
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  #139  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:42 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Under normal circumstances I agree with this premise, but in the case of Pederson filling RF, I think he’s fine even if it’s just a 2020 stopgap.

If Rutherford, Adolfo, Basabe, or Walker have a great 2020 and look MLB-ready by September, you can let Pederson go for 2021. If not, just re-sign him.
You can't "just re-sign him" any easier than you could just sign him in a year. Too high a price for a 1 year player at this point. Too many eggs in the 1 year basket off of 72 wins against a weak schedule. And it will be pitching, which the Sox have scant little of in the mid-low minors.
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  #140  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:43 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Now go sign Cole and Strasburg.
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  #141  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:00 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by little nell View Post
i'm with you on this deal, just don't think he's worth that kind of money.
+1
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  #142  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:30 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Why burn him out in Year 1 of the deal when McCann is still here?

100 starts behind the plate is enough for any catcher north of age-30, especially when he needs to hold up for 4 more years.
I not saying they should catch him 130 games, just saying what will happen.
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  #143  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:10 PM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
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Seems kinda understated here how great a signing this is. They just signed one of the best catchers in baseball.
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  #144  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:18 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Roarman View Post
Seems kinda understated here how great a signing this is. They just signed one of the best catchers in baseball.
To be fair, most people are pretty pumped up by this signing. There are just a few vocal critics. Go back and check the early posts and they were almost all positive.
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  #145  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:37 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
To be fair, most people are pretty pumped up by this signing. There are just a few vocal critics. Go back and check the early posts and they were almost all positive.
And I don’t remember any of those “vocal critics” saying that they didn’t love the move. They said there needs to be more like it, and some that are even bigger than it.
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  #146  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:53 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post



With his production to date, it doesn't matter what he thinks. He's fighting to be a viable piece in the league.
He had a .950 OPS at AAA last year though
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  #147  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:14 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
He had a .950 OPS at AAA last year though
We're talking about Collins, right?

He definitely showed potential. However he also showed that he has two big flaws in his game:

(1) He can't hit LHP at all at this point, and perhaps never will. .136/.240/.136 with a 44% K-rate for the Sox last year is ugly, but it was only 25 plate appearances. His .224/.237/.447 line with a 41% K-rate at AAA wasn't that much better.
(2) Rick Renteria doesn't trust his defense behind the plate.

The Grandal deal works so well for Collins because it allows him to be put in favorable situations as he eases into the league. If he succeeds, he can be tested more, but if not he can still be a valuable contributor providing lefty power and high OBP in a platoon role.
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  #148  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:25 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
He had a .950 OPS at AAA last year though
I think this move is absolutely a great thing for Collins. He gets to learn behind two good catchers while he breaks in as a DH. Ideally he gets earns ABs every day and shows he can hit LHP a bit while carrying himself as a guy who gets at righties.

Mercedes should come along with him if he can mash lefties like he has. He looks like a guy who worked really hard from indy ball and may be a late bloomer. Seriously go look at his splits vs LHP at BR, they are impressive.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=merced000yer

Those two make a platoon that's at least worth looking at and both have value as catchers.

I see this as their best solution for two spots at one cost and I bet they fill that RF spot via trade if they dont like the market.
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  #149  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:31 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is online now
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I really like this move, particularly if the Sox keep McCann and Collins and rotate the DH spot. Would be nice to have two good catchers kept fresh all year, and I don't want to give up on Collins' bat either. Once you get past Robert, Madrigal and Vaughn, Collins is still by far the best hitting prospect we've got. Need to give him a chance to hit before Vaughn is ready. Get a RF, plug in Robert and Madrigal. Might as well bring back Sanchez, Engel and Leury for the bench. Could be pretty good.
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  #150  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:41 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is online now
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Mercedes should come along with him if he can mash lefties like he has. He looks like a guy who worked really hard from indy ball and may be a late bloomer. Seriously go look at his splits vs LHP at BR, they are impressive.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=merced000yer

Those two make a platoon that's at least worth looking at and both have value as catchers.

I see this as their best solution for two spots at one cost and I bet they fill that RF spot via trade if they dont like the market.
So you expect McCann to be traded? Seems probable, but then we're left with two back up catchers who aren't very good behind the plate. Really like the idea of having a strong backstop out there 162 games a year when one is good enough to stay in the lineup at DH or 1b.
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