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  #61  
Old 07-03-2018, 07:52 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by TommyJohn View Post
I am positive that every other 100 loss rebuilding team played flawless baseball and executed all the fundamentals to perfection. The White Sox are the only team ever to look this bad while rebuilding.
[emphasis mine]

Or this consistent.
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 07-04-2018 at 01:04 PM.
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  #62  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:12 PM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by TommyJohn View Post
I am positive that every other 100 loss rebuilding team played flawless baseball and executed all the fundamentals to perfection. The White Sox are the only team ever to look this bad while rebuilding.
Nope they all played fundamentally sound baseball on their way to 100 loses for multiple years in a row
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  #63  
Old 07-03-2018, 09:11 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The Cubs committed roughly $400 million to Heyward, Lester, Lackey, and Zobrist.
Thank you.
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  #64  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:55 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
I wonder if during their rebuild the players knew what base to throw to, the number of outs, where to throw the ball in every situation, back up a base, tag second base when attempting a 6-4-3 double play, retouch all established bases in reverse order on a live ball, communicate between fielders so as not to kill one another and last but not least: hustle.
No, they didn't.
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  #65  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:56 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The Rizzo trade is questionable and may have been an insider deal, so I can't count that.
Which Crede homers counted, again?
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  #66  
Old 07-04-2018, 08:34 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Which Crede homers counted, again?
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  #67  
Old 07-04-2018, 09:18 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJohn View Post
I am positive that every other 100 loss rebuilding team played flawless baseball and executed all the fundamentals to perfection. The White Sox are the only team ever to look this bad while rebuilding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosiersoxfan View Post
Nope they all played fundamentally sound baseball on their way to 100 loses for multiple years in a row
In fact, the White Sox are the only organization that doesn’t emphasize fundamentals. Every other major league club executes fundamentals flawlessly because all of their minor league players are drilled endlessly, and if one ever makes a mistake he is cut instantly.

More than that, JR, KW, Hahn, and Cooper (because he has photos of the other three in compromising positions) spend each offseason meticulously planning how they will get players acquired from other organizations to forget how to hit the other way or execute a rundown.

For instance, most recently they perfected the Ludovico Technique on Yoan Moncada; he becomes nauseous every time a chopper bounces his way thanks to the sprays of ammonia in his nose that he receives while watching footage of Nellie Fox.
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  #68  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:06 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
In fact, the White Sox are the only organization that doesn’t emphasize fundamentals. Every other major league club executes fundamentals flawlessly because all of their minor league players are drilled endlessly, and if one ever makes a mistake he is cut instantly.

More than that, JR, KW, Hahn, and Cooper (because he has photos of the other three in compromising positions) spend each offseason meticulously planning how they will get players acquired from other organizations to forget how to hit the other way or execute a rundown.

For instance, most recently they perfected the Ludovico Technique on Yoan Moncada; he becomes nauseous every time a chopper bounces his way thanks to the sprays of ammonia in his nose that he receives while watching footage of Nellie Fox.
Normally, I’d fault the excessive hyperbolic nature of this post, but it’s a well-crafted response given the rampant ridiculousness around these parts by a handful of folks.
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  #69  
Old 07-04-2018, 12:49 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
In fact, the White Sox are the only organization that doesn’t emphasize fundamentals. Every other major league club executes fundamentals flawlessly because all of their minor league players are drilled endlessly, and if one ever makes a mistake he is cut instantly.
No, every other team does not teach fundamentals flawlessly. This team drafts those same players, maybe athletes opposed to pure baseball players, and those players have the basics to learn. I am not sure how well schooled the international players are when it comes to the fundamentals. As we've seen the fans these days, and many on this forum tend to prefer the crash, boom, bang of the game than the well executed, tight contests of the past.

Now, with Getz in charge I have a much better feeling about players learning the basics before moving to MLB.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
More than that, JR, KW, Hahn, and Cooper (because he has photos of the other three in compromising positions) spend each offseason meticulously planning how they will get players acquired from other organizations to forget how to hit the other way or execute a rundown.

For instance, most recently they perfected the Ludovico Technique on Yoan Moncada; he becomes nauseous every time a chopper bounces his way thanks to the sprays of ammonia in his nose that he receives while watching footage of Nellie Fox.
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  #70  
Old 07-04-2018, 01:35 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz
As we've seen the fans these days, and many on this forum tend to prefer the crash, boom, bang of the game than the well executed, tight contests of the past.
I have no preference other than seeing the White Sox make the best possible effort toward winning another World Series. The evidence being provided by advanced analytics suggests that “crash, boom, bang” is the best way to win baseball games. I am doing nothing more than following that evidence.
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  #71  
Old 07-04-2018, 01:44 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Doesn't that evidence (cite some please) run counter to the evidence that Billy Beane followed in Moneyball?
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  #72  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:07 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is online now
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Doesn't that evidence (cite some please) run counter to the evidence that Billy Beane followed in Moneyball?
Moneyball was all about sabermetric analysis especially the undervaluing of walks/OBP. It actually fits in well with the current "3-outcome" thinking that some have derided. One of those outcomes, after all, is taking a walk.

From there the analysis tries to figure out what is the most likely way to get a hit? Is it to go the other way or lay down bunts or turn and burn on a regular basis. The evidence seems to support turning and burning even against shifts.
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  #73  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:26 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Normally, I’d fault the excessive hyperbolic nature of this post, but it’s a well-crafted response given the rampant ridiculousness around these parts by a handful of folks.
Indeed. I know everyone as a fan wants a winning product, and it would be nice to see consistently good fundamentals. However, I’m sure there are fans of every team—particularly the kind of highly invested fans who would post about their team on the internet—that would take issue with their team’s fundamentals, bullpen usage, managerial decisions, performance of touted prospects, et cetera. The White Sox are by no means the only team that struggles in certain areas, and it’s magnified because it’s a young team. I’m just doing my best to enjoy the parts of the season that I can, knowing it won’t be a playoff year.
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  #74  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:31 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Originally Posted by XplodingScorbord View Post
Indeed. I know everyone as a fan wants a winning product, and it would be nice to see consistently good fundamentals. However, I’m sure there are fans of every team—particularly the kind of highly invested fans who would post about their team on the internet—that would take issue with their team’s fundamentals, bullpen usage, managerial decisions, performance of touted prospects, et cetera. The White Sox are by no means the only team that struggles in certain areas, and it’s magnified because it’s a young team. I’m just doing my best to enjoy the parts of the season that I can, knowing it won’t be a playoff year.
Some truth in your comment. However I'd temper it with the fact that the Sox what have the third longest playoff drought in MLB? (I think only Seattle and San Diego have longer?) That plus the bad baseball pretty consistently since 2007 (not 2013 as some are saying) means other fan bases at least have had the "luxury" of some success in the same time period.

Hard to be happy or have patience when the view has basically been the same the past 11 years (and counting)
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  #75  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:34 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz
Doesn't that evidence (cite some please) run counter to the evidence that Billy Beane followed in Moneyball?
Here is Tom Tango’s Run Expectancy Matrix, an oft-cited piece of evidence that explains why trading outs for bases is often a losing proposition:

http://tangotiger.net/re24.html
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