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  #46  
Old 04-25-2018, 08:23 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
I've been a fan since 1993. Been old enough to understand what was actually happening since 2001. Yeah, I know Uncle Jerry was cheap with the draft picks, but still it hasn't become much better over the last few years. We have some sort of hope with guys like Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins, Burdi and Burger, but half of them have already had significant injuries. We don't know what we have there with any of them yet. Honestly, out of this group, I think that Anderson has the best shot to have a productive career out of those with any sort of track record. Burdi and Burger got hurt too early in their minor league careers to have any sort of decent track record so the jury is out on those guys, and we'll have to wait until 2019(at least) to know anything about either of them. I think Rodon probably won't figure it out until his walk year, and that is if his stuff returns after the shoulder surgery. Fulmer is a wild card and Collins needs to hit .250 with 30 bombs at the major league level if he can't stick at catcher. I don't know if he's capable of that.
I don't think we know that yet since all the guys drafted in the past 4 years are still developing.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2018, 08:25 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Anderson likely scores on a base hit. Its Renteria's job to communicate to Anderson that you do not take risks in a one-naught game.
I would be shocked if Renteria has not communicated that to the players.
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2018, 10:11 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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For all this talk about the busts the Sox have had in the first round over the past 10-20 years, I have a feeling the same discussion could be going on among the fans of at least 29 other MLB teams.

Look at the first round picks overall from the past 20-30 years. How many names each year jump out at you as "oh yeah, him!"? Maybe 4 of 30 in a good year. How many years have even 50% of the first round picks made it to The Show and made a significant impact at The Show?

This is not the NFL or NBA where a first round pick has a much higher chance of being a stud within a couple of years, if at all.
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  #49  
Old 04-25-2018, 12:56 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
I don't think we know that yet since all the guys drafted in the past 4 years are still developing.
Yeah, truthfully you're right that the jury is still out on all of them, but early returns aren't the greatest.
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  #50  
Old 04-25-2018, 01:01 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
For all this talk about the busts the Sox have had in the first round over the past 10-20 years, I have a feeling the same discussion could be going on among the fans of at least 29 other MLB teams.

Look at the first round picks overall from the past 20-30 years. How many names each year jump out at you as "oh yeah, him!"? Maybe 4 of 30 in a good year. How many years have even 50% of the first round picks made it to The Show and made a significant impact at The Show?

This is not the NFL or NBA where a first round pick has a much higher chance of being a stud within a couple of years, if at all.
Agreed, but 3/35 over 30 years is a pretty low percentage. I'd bet that all 29 other teams have done better than that. I mean, the Nationals hit on Strasburg/Harper in 2010/11 and that equals the same amount of decent players the Sox have drafted highly in the last 20 years. Yes I know they were both 1OA but still, you can blow those. I'd imagine that that the average team hits on 4-6 at least of their top picks over a 20 year period, but not less than 10%
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  #51  
Old 04-25-2018, 02:40 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
Agreed, but 3/35 over 30 years is a pretty low percentage. I'd bet that all 29 other teams have done better than that. I mean, the Nationals hit on Strasburg/Harper in 2010/11 and that equals the same amount of decent players the Sox have drafted highly in the last 20 years. Yes I know they were both 1OA but still, you can blow those. I'd imagine that that the average team hits on 4-6 at least of their top picks over a 20 year period, but not less than 10%
Well, that depends on where they're drafting. Very few drafts go deeper than 10 in the first round. Most don't go much beyond 5 deep. Seriously, take a look at this link and comb through the drafts - it's remarkable how few first rounders picked have done much of anything. Heck, a lot of picks inside of the Top Ten never sniff the big leagues. With a few exceptions (like Trout), very few eventual superstars were picked outside of the Top 5.

In the last 20 years, the Sox have had just 3 draft picks inside of the Top 10 and only 1 inside of the Top 5. They took Rodon #3 in 2014, Fulmer #8 in '15, and Beckham #8 in '08.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/history/draft/draft.jsp#

I have a far bigger issue with player development, or lack thereof, than I do with the picks made.
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  #52  
Old 07-03-2018, 04:10 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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This article from 2013 should be mandatory reading before criticizing the rebuild. Look at how many names are mentioned as being part of the Cubs' future when they are expected to win who were on other teams when 2015/2016 rolled around and how many of the minor league prospects touted never saw their names mentioned in the press again after this article.

http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cub...owing-progress
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  #53  
Old 07-03-2018, 04:14 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
This article from 2013 should be mandatory reading before criticizing the rebuild. Look at how many names are mentioned as being part of the Cubs' future when they are expected to win who were on other teams when 2015/2016 rolled around and how many of the minor league prospects touted never saw their names mentioned in the press again after this article.

http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cub...owing-progress
Very true. The thing that put the Cubs "over the top" as it were and what is still a very big unknown regarding the White Sox one, is the fact the Cubs spent over 400 million dollars on free agents and international signings.

Not all the Sox kids are going to make it, that's a simple fact. Will the Sox pay the price to get what they need to "get over the top?" We'll see. Hahn says the money will be there...again, we'll see.
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  #54  
Old 07-03-2018, 04:30 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Very true. The thing that put the Cubs "over the top" as it were and what is still a very big unknown regarding the White Sox one, is the fact the Cubs spent over 400 million dollars on free agents and international signings.

Not all the Sox kids are going to make it, that's a simple fact. Will the Sox pay the price to get what they need to "get over the top?" We'll see. Hahn says the money will be there...again, we'll see.
Names, please.

The starting position players in 2016:
Montero (acquired by trade) and Ross (2.5m FA signing)
Rizzo (acquired by trade)
Zobrist (10.5M FA signing)
Russell (acquired by trade)
Bryant (drafted)
Soler (International FA signing. 1.6M first two years with 1M increase for 2015 and then in 2016)
Fowler (8m FA signing)
Hayward (21.6M FA signing)

Pitchers who were international signings:
Chapman, and he was signed by the Yankees and came to Cubs in a trade for a total stud SS.

Starters:
Lester (FA signing. 25M in 2016)
Arrieta (acquired by trade)
Hammel (9m FA signing)
Lackey (16M FA signing)
Hendricks (acquired by trade)


Where is the $400,000,000? Where are all the international players?

Not many of the Cubs' "kids" even made it to the Show despite what the article says about them.
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  #55  
Old 07-03-2018, 04:40 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
This article from 2013 should be mandatory reading before criticizing the rebuild. Look at how many names are mentioned as being part of the Cubs' future when they are expected to win who were on other teams when 2015/2016 rolled around and how many of the minor league prospects touted never saw their names mentioned in the press again after this article.

http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cub...owing-progress
We need to just post this in every thread. Maybe for the remainder of the next two or three years.
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  #56  
Old 07-03-2018, 05:24 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry
Where is the $400,000,000?
The Cubs committed roughly $400 million to Heyward, Lester, Lackey, and Zobrist.
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  #57  
Old 07-03-2018, 05:32 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
This article from 2013 should be mandatory reading before criticizing the rebuild. Look at how many names are mentioned as being part of the Cubs' future when they are expected to win who were on other teams when 2015/2016 rolled around and how many of the minor league prospects touted never saw their names mentioned in the press again after this article.

http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cub...owing-progress
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
We need to just post this in every thread. Maybe for the remainder of the next two or three years.

I wonder if during their rebuild the players knew what base to throw to, the number of outs, where to throw the ball in every situation, back up a base, tag second base when attempting a 6-4-3 double play, retouch all established bases in reverse order on a live ball, communicate between fielders so as not to kill one another and last but not least: hustle.
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  #58  
Old 07-03-2018, 05:58 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Montero (acquired by trade) Godley and another minor leaguer
Rizzo (acquired by trade) Cashner

Russell (acquired by trade) Samardizja
Arrieta (acquired by trade) Feldman
Hendricks (acquired by trade) Dempster
(info added to quote)
The Rizzo trade is questionable and may have been an insider deal, so I can't count that. Getting Arrieta and Hendricks for average pitchers is nice. Hello James Shields. And the Sox fell for the Samardzija fools-gold.
Otherwise, the Sox won't have a Bryant fall into their lap, but that's offset by the Cubs not having a Chris Sale to trade (or Eaton or Q).
The Cubs were better at drafting, international signings and development than the Sox, even under Hendry (he just couldn't put together a team). And that's what it always boils down to. Getting your own young players.
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  #59  
Old 07-03-2018, 06:00 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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What does the Cubs rebuild have to do with the White Sox rebuild?

In the history of baseball, I can find dozens of examples of rebuilds that succeeded, and I can find dozens of examples of rebuilds that failed. None of that amounts to a hill of **** when analyzing the current state of the Sox.
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  #60  
Old 07-03-2018, 07:40 PM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
I wonder if during their rebuild the players knew what base to throw to, the number of outs, where to throw the ball in every situation, back up a base, tag second base when attempting a 6-4-3 double play, retouch all established bases in reverse order on a live ball, communicate between fielders so as not to kill one another and last but not least: hustle.
I am positive that every other 100 loss rebuilding team played flawless baseball and executed all the fundamentals to perfection. The White Sox are the only team ever to look this bad while rebuilding.
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