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  #1  
Old 02-19-2020, 08:09 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Default Fixing Fulmer?

I saw this on Fangraphs and found it interesting.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/prospect...ost-prospects/

Personally, I think Fulmerís cutter should be used drastically less, maybe about 1/2 to 1/3 as much as last year. At the same time, his ridiculously good curveball should be thrown significantly more, maybe 2x or even 3x as often. I think he should focus primarily on the same thing that worked for Giolito: tunneling an elevated 4-seamer with something offspeed and maximizing the deception. If Fulmer makes noticeable strides with his changeup, then he can mix in more cutters to go with that changeup and dial back on curveballs a little bit. Try something like 50% 4-seam, 20% cutter, 15% changeup, 15% curveball.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think Fulmer can be a dominant late-inning reliever if he can ever learn how to throw his 4-seamer for strikes at the top of the zone. He has Verlander-esque spin, which can make 93-94 mph play about 5 mph faster, and his curveball can lethal.
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2020, 08:37 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Heís already had way more chances than he deserves. Remember, he still hasnít mastered AAA.

Sox should release him and bring in a pitcher who doesnít need to be fixed.
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:39 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
He’s already had way more chances than he deserves. Remember, he still hasn’t mastered AAA.

Sox should release him and bring in a pitcher who doesn’t need to be fixed.
And those available pitchers are?

Zero point in releasing him now. He's been a reliever full-time for one season, maybe something clicks. If not, oh well.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:09 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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The idea that there are pitchers laying around for the very back end of staffs or as organizational filler who donít need to be fixed in some way is amusing.
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  #5  
Old 02-19-2020, 10:11 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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And those available pitchers are?
Let them play a month of ST games and weíll find out.

Could be Foster, Burr, Hamilton, Burdi, Johnson, Heuer or a player who doesnít make another teamís roster. Could be Fulmer...except it wonít be, because in spite of his spin rate, heís a terrible pitcher.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:13 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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The idea that there are pitchers laying around for the very back end of staffs or as organizational filler who donít need to be fixed in some way is amusing.
Evan Marshall and Jimmy Cordero say hi.
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  #7  
Old 02-19-2020, 10:28 PM
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It costs nothing to let Fulmer try and work out his control issues in the final year of cheap full-team control the Sox have. Throwing him away now would be simply silly. They can always cut him later in the season and try to find a scrapheap veteran, but they've got a bunch of those guys already.

Heck some other team might even take him as throw in on a trade even if he continues to suck for us. He's got a live arm and they might figure they've got an idea on how to fix him.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:43 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Let them play a month of ST games and weíll find out.

Could be Foster, Burr, Hamilton, Burdi, Johnson, Heuer or a player who doesnít make another teamís roster. Could be Fulmer...except it wonít be, because in spite of his spin rate, heís a terrible pitcher.
Those guys will get their shot and those other guys wonít be available for over a month, so again, zero point.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:46 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Evan Marshall and Jimmy Cordero say hi.
You know who those guys were before last year? Other teamís lost causes.
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  #10  
Old 02-19-2020, 10:51 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Pitch tunneling is typically done and can be effective with a FB and then pitches like a slider, change or split - not a curveball. A curve is too loopy, greater velo difference, and different arm action for it to look similar to a FB out of the hand and part of the way to the plate.

Not to mention that Fulmer is wild as hell, and making him focus on having a perfect arm path, release point, etc for every one of his pitches aren't helping him at all have more control.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
You know who those guys were before last year? Other teamís lost causes.
And if last year at anytime you had offered Fulmer for one of them straight up, the team would have jumped at it. That remains Fulmer's floor value. He can ALWAYS be traded for another team's failed prospect or last legs dude about to be cut.

That's why cutting him makes no sense at all.
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2020, 11:17 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Pitch tunneling is typically done and can be effective with a FB and then pitches like a slider, change or split - not a curveball. A curve is too loopy, greater velo difference, and different arm action for it to look similar to a FB out of the hand and part of the way to the plate.

Not to mention that Fulmer is wild as hell, and making him focus on having a perfect arm path, release point, etc for every one of his pitches aren't helping him at all have more control.
You would really have to hope he throws both his cutter and change enough to master it.

One thing to add is that tunneling isn't some novelty as he mentioned. In fact, most pitchers are trying to tunnel, especially SPs. It's just sensible pitching to have multiple offerings that you can maintain motion and release on. It's why we see secondary FBs and changeups being matched up (cutter with 1-8 change and 2-seamer with 11-5 change) and guys who thrive off throwing a couple different breaking balls with different grips and roughly the same motion and release.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:31 PM
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And if last year at anytime you had offered Fulmer for one of them straight up, the team would have jumped at it. That remains Fulmer's floor value. He can ALWAYS be traded for another team's failed prospect or last legs dude about to be cut.

That's why cutting him makes no sense at all.
RPs can and will flip that switch at any time. It's not even a gamble to give one last full run with Fulmer, just smart asset management. We did win the Thornton trade a really long time ago, though.

To bring back this list from Cavatica ...

Quote:
Foster, Burr, Hamilton, Burdi, Johnson, Heuer
This list is why I'm fine with them giving him another shot. He has actual young talent nipping at his heels to compete with and as a fallback if he doesn't step up.

Anyway, Carson is incredibly talented, there's no question about that. The history of baseball is littered with guys with his goods or better who failed, it's also rich with pitchers going from zero to hero as they matured in professional baseball. Definitely a better chance with the former, that rate is just the nature of baseball. There's still no good reason to panic right now with that extra roster spot.
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2020, 11:33 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
And if last year at anytime you had offered Fulmer for one of them straight up, the team would have jumped at it. That remains Fulmer's floor value. He can ALWAYS be traded for another team's failed prospect or last legs dude about to be cut.

That's why cutting him makes no sense at all.
Fine, trade him for $500 in international cap space.

Giving him any more major league innings makes no sense at all. Better pitchers will be available on every AAA roster, and many AA and independent league rosters. Fulmer is the last of the truly awful rebuild players to have a chance at a roster spot, merely because they're embarrassed to admit they blew the pick. Move on.
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  #15  
Old 02-19-2020, 11:33 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
You would really have to hope he throws both his cutter and change enough to master it.

One thing to add is that tunneling isn't some novelty as he mentioned. In fact, most pitchers are trying to tunnel, especially SPs. It's just sensible pitching to have multiple offerings that you can maintain motion and release on. It's why we see secondary FBs and changeups being matched up (cutter with 1-8 change and 2-seamer with 11-5 change) and guys who thrive off throwing a couple different breaking balls with different grips and roughly the same motion and release.
Agreed. The whole point of a change, split, cutter, slider are to look like a FB until they aren't.
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