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  #61  
Old 09-03-2019, 02:18 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Just because Robert is better doesn't mean that Mountcastle is any less closer to personally being ready for the bigs. Each have their own ceilings.

So Mountcastle has a few advanced stats that aren't glowing, great. Doesn't mean he wasn't a good player in AAA, and ready for the next step after playing 127 games there.

If service time wasn't a concern of teams, he would have 100% been a Sept call up at the very least.
This is a tough sell for me because I'm not a believer in Mountcastle. He strikes out a ton and has been extremely lucky. I think he needs a different approach to be successful, and will likely need to do that in AAA once the numbers catch up. If he came up now it would probably hinder his development (whatever chance he might have).

Last edited by blandman; 09-03-2019 at 02:23 PM.
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  #62  
Old 09-03-2019, 02:24 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
I used the MLB.com list simply because it popped up on my phone when I was reading this thread. It was written by Richard Justice -- a sportswriter with an opinion (like Jeff Passan). Not one of the players I listed was ready for a September 2018 cup of coffee or ready to start this season on the 25 man roster?
I don't want to rag too much on the MLB.com guys, but...

You're not a reporter if you write about the company you work for. You're in PR.
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  #63  
Old 09-03-2019, 02:30 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
The Sox are incompetent!
This should not be in teal.
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  #64  
Old 09-03-2019, 02:54 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is online now
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
This is a tough sell for me because I'm not a believer in Mountcastle. He strikes out a ton and has been extremely lucky. I think he needs a different approach to be successful, and will likely need to do that in AAA once the numbers catch up. If he came up now it would probably hinder his development (whatever chance he might have).
I'm not trying to sell you on him, doesn't matter if you think he'll be good or not. He hit .312 for an entire season in AAA with 25 bombs. They aren't going to change him before he has even failed in the minors, let alone the majors. If Sept call-ups had no bearing on service time, he would be up now without question.
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  #65  
Old 09-03-2019, 03:04 PM
asindc asindc is online now
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Everyone keeps saying "good luck with that". I don't think they quite grasp that the bodies that monitor these things exist to stop wrong-doing, not to let organizations get off on technicalities.
Which of course explains why so many claims have been filed thus far. Oh wait...
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  #66  
Old 09-03-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The assumption is they wouldn't be up until NEXT May.
Which doesn't change the fact they didn't bring them up for opening day THIS year but waited until after the date THIS year wouldn't impact the teams control years.

If they were really not manipulating the clock these players could have been up opening day. You cannot have it both ways, no matter how you spin it.
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  #67  
Old 09-03-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Everyone keeps saying "good luck with that". I don't think they quite grasp that the bodies that monitor these things exist to stop wrong-doing, not to let organizations get off on technicalities.
Well in theory that's true...
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  #68  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:19 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Remember when we had this exact argument about Eloy and how ready he was.... except then he had a really disappointing rookie year and maybe everyone was wrong?
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  #69  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:42 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
I'm not trying to sell you on him, doesn't matter if you think he'll be good or not. He hit .312 for an entire season in AAA with 25 bombs. They aren't going to change him before he has even failed in the minors, let alone the majors. If Sept call-ups had no bearing on service time, he would be up now without question.
I'll just keep harping on the BABIP and the low ISO to explain it away. Counting stats are the worst way to evaluate a prospect's readiness.
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  #70  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:43 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Which doesn't change the fact they didn't bring them up for opening day THIS year but waited until after the date THIS year wouldn't impact the teams control years.

If they were really not manipulating the clock these players could have been up opening day. You cannot have it both ways, no matter how you spin it.
If you're saying they were ready last September or on opening day, I'd say...you're welcome to that opinion but I think you'd be hard pressed to find many talent evaluators that would agree with that.
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  #71  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:57 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Remember when we had this exact argument about Eloy and how ready he was.... except then he had a really disappointing rookie year and maybe everyone was wrong?
Except in Eloy's case, there was nothing left to learn against the competition he was facing.

And look, we're not talking about good prospects. We're talking about the handful of players that are undermatched in AAA and consensus top 5 talents in the minors when we're talking about Eloy last year and Luis Robert this year.
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  #72  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Everyone keeps saying "good luck with that". I don't think they quite grasp that the bodies that monitor these things exist to stop wrong-doing, not to let organizations get off on technicalities.
What "bodies" are you referring to? Secret societies that meet in the dark of night to plot the New World Order?

News flash: there are no organizations that monitor "these things." The Collective Bargaining Agreement runs the show and if a team somehow violates it (impossible to do when it comes to service time), there is a grievance procedure.

The CBA cannot, and will not, tell a team how to manage its personnel. That is left up to the front office. If the White Sox want to keep Robert in AAA until 2023 (if his contract is that long), they can do that and there really isn't anything Robert can about it other than demand a trade.
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  #73  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:27 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Except in Eloy's case, there was nothing left to learn against the competition he was facing.
It's obvious to any observer that Eloy still has to learn to field his position. Although I think service time was the real reason, there were completely legitimate grounds to leave him down as long as they did -- or longer.
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  #74  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
If you're saying they were ready last September or on opening day, I'd say...you're welcome to that opinion but I think you'd be hard pressed to find many talent evaluators that would agree with that.
What I'm saying is...

The team got almost a full 7 years of Major League playing time with full team control for ALL of those years. The CBA dictates 6 years of team control once a player hits the majors. In other words, they manipulated the playing time to favor longer team control from the instant the player was called up.

These are the facts as we know them. Everything else is speculation and talent evaluation - things which people disagree on all the time.

Are you saying that the extra ~3 weeks in the minors are the difference between these players being ready in late April/early May instead of on opening day?

I'm having a real tough time swallowing that claim...
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  #75  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:45 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is online now
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Cite me the statute that overrides the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Also, show me all the lawsuits filed because of this labor law violation by the players, their agents, the District Attorneys and US Attorney.
Kris Bryant Grievance

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/w...a-labor-lawyer
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