White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:02 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
NO THEY DIDN'T!

There wasn't a single scouting report on Tatis said he would bust out like this. NONE, ZERO! He was a lottery ticket and it hit.

The rest is revisionist bull****.

Or, you know, Keith Law. But people hate him here because he hates the Sox. Or maybe he doesn't, and dismissing his opinion is simply revisionist.



If you wanna act like nobody was talking about Tatis, I'm gonna call bs on that. Law lambasted the Sox, and the reason was Tatis.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:12 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago - Mayfair
Posts: 4,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Or, you know, Keith Law. But people hate him here because he hates the Sox. Or maybe he doesn't, and dismissing his opinion is simply revisionist.

If you wanna act like nobody was talking about Tatis, I'm gonna call bs on that.
Keith Law sucks and not because people don't like him, it's because he's bad at his job.

As for the Tatis trade (groan) I will remind everyone (again) that Tatis had not played in a single game for any White Sox affiliate when he was traded. He was a decently regarded international prospect, who was at the bottom of a few top 30 lists when he was signed. When the trade was coming together the Padres had specifically requested Anderson and the Sox refused to give him up. Tatis was the second choice and universally regarded as a lottery ticket.

It was time to turn the page on this 2 years ago, it is borderline psychotic that some of you can't get over this...
__________________
<a href=http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3256 target=_blank>http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...achmentid=3256</a>

March 16, 2005 - Another happy Sox fan joins the party!
July 6, 2012 - 7 years later he's still part of it...
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:14 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,082
Default

Reinsdorf thought he was getting a $20 million pitcher for $10 million. If he valued young talent more than he valued saving a buck or two, Tatis would still be here.

We seriously need to let the Tatis trade go.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and let’s fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:15 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago - Mayfair
Posts: 4,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
No, he was the best regarded prospect in the Sox system at the time of the trade. People didn’t necessarily know that he would be an All-Star, although Hahn is now saying (or at least has said) they were aware of the talent they were giving up when they traded Tatis.
This is completely untrue, he was not even top 10 at the time...
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:26 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago - Mayfair
Posts: 4,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Carey Schueler was picked in the 43rd round in 1993, and the grief over the pick still pops up occasionally in these forums.
That grief is ridiculous. At person drafed in the 43rd round of the MLB draft has less than a 1% chance of making the big leagues. Not a single player taken in the 43rd round in 1993 made the major leagues and NO player taken at pick 1208 has EVER made the major leagues. Jonathan Papelbon was taken in 2002 but did not sign as drafting and following was common.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:57 PM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,918
Blog Entries: 384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insp View Post
Who are those experts? Please name names.
Huh?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:58 PM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
Co-Winner WSI 2018 NFL Pick'em Contest
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
He wasn't a lottery ticket. His father had some baseball skills, and he grew up around professional baseball. He wasn't just any kid from the island who was lost in the system because he hadn't distinguished himself yet. His name alone demanded attention and likely had a lot to do with the White Sox signing him.
Obviously it now is a terrible trade but that has nothing to do with his dad having been in the major leagues. Didn't the Sox also draft Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillien's sons at one point? Just because a kid's dad played in the majors doesn't mean their name alone gives them a shot at making the squad. That being said does anyone know if there is a Juan Uribe Jr. eligible to be drafted soon?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-18-2019, 12:00 AM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Keith Law sucks and not because people don't like him, it's because he's bad at his job.

As for the Tatis trade (groan) I will remind everyone (again) that Tatis had not played in a single game for any White Sox affiliate when he was traded. He was a decently regarded international prospect, who was at the bottom of a few top 30 lists when he was signed. When the trade was coming together the Padres had specifically requested Anderson and the Sox refused to give him up. Tatis was the second choice and universally regarded as a lottery ticket.

It was time to turn the page on this 2 years ago, it is borderline psychotic that some of you can't get over this...



Keith Law sure has held the top prospect analyst spot for the largest sports media company on the planet a long time for being terrible at his job.

Law was right about this, and historically right about the White Sox. He was wrong on one guy - Sale - and meatheads have been dismissing his virtually flawless White Sox prospect analysis since.

Yeah...a lot of publications didn't know much about Tatis. But you know who ****ing should have? The White Sox. And they didn't. You know who did? That guy you dismiss at bad at his job. Which is incredibly ironic.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-18-2019, 11:09 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago - Mayfair
Posts: 4,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Keith Law sure has held the top prospect analyst spot for the largest sports media company on the planet a long time for being terrible at his job.
Being at ESPN for a long time does not equal good. He's a troll who fans the flames to get clicks and uses secondhand information to make his wild predictions. Do you think Kotex Boy who spent the 90s writing assassination pieces on every sports figure in Chicago was "good"? He wrote for the Sun Times for a very long time and landed a job at ESPN as well. Length of service does not equal good.

Quote:
Law was right about this, and historically right about the White Sox. He was wrong on one guy - Sale - and meatheads have been dismissing his virtually flawless White Sox prospect analysis since.
LOL, "virtually flawless". What has been so "virtually flawless" about his predictions over the past 10 years? He has lagged behind MLBPipeline, Sickels, BP and many other of the major scouting sites.

Quote:
Yeah...a lot of publications didn't know much about Tatis. But you know who ****ing should have? The White Sox. And they didn't. You know who did? That guy you dismiss at bad at his job. Which is incredibly ironic.
Oh please, Tatis was an 17 year old without a single minor league at bat. The Padres didn't know much about him either, they wanted Anderson not Tatis. Law didn't say much about the trade when it was made, he started making grand predictions after Tatis started impacting the Padres farm system in 2017.

Keith Law sucks...
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-18-2019, 11:28 AM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Being at ESPN for a long time does not equal good. He's a troll who fans the flames to get clicks and uses secondhand information to make his wild predictions. Do you think Kotex Boy who spent the 90s writing assassination pieces on every sports figure in Chicago was "good"? He wrote for the Sun Times for a very long time and landed a job at ESPN as well. Length of service does not equal good.



LOL, "virtually flawless". What has been so "virtually flawless" about his predictions over the past 10 years? He has lagged behind MLBPipeline, Sickels, BP and many other of the major scouting sites.



Oh please, Tatis was an 17 year old without a single minor league at bat. The Padres didn't know much about him either, they wanted Anderson not Tatis. Law didn't say much about the trade when it was made, he started making grand predictions after Tatis started impacting the Padres farm system in 2017.

Keith Law sucks...


Law regularly got **** here for not getting with the program on Dayan Viciedo, Jeremy Reed, and Jon Rauch. He gave the White Sox crap for trading away guys like Tatis and Gio Gonzalez. He had long standing issues with the way the team was operating internationally as well as it's drafting strategy, which minimized potential.

I understand why there's this impression of Law around here. But it's time to realize that he's not employed just to **** with us. He's pretty damn spot on when it comes to us, and unfortunately it's because we've operated so poorly for so long. He's been generally very positive on our rebuild, but the poor impression remains despite the reality of his analysis.


I don't understand your reasoning on they wanted TA first. Yeah...they wanted our top rated prospect at the time. And after that? Tatis is the guy they thought was next. Why did the Padres realize how good he was? Why did Law? What were these two separate entities doing that we had no idea about? That's what angers me more than the trade. Talent evaluation in the organization has been historically abysmal. Which is why we have a trade that people think is the worst of all time. You can't call it dumb luck when obviously two different parties knew the potential.

Last edited by blandman; 08-18-2019 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-19-2019, 08:27 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insp View Post
According to longtime baseball writer Murray Chass, the Tatis trade was "the worst trade of all time."

Agree? Disagree?

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=12104
You're misquoting. He said "one of the worst trades in major league history", not THE worst.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-19-2019, 08:44 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Law regularly got **** here for not getting with the program on Dayan Viciedo, Jeremy Reed, and Jon Rauch. He gave the White Sox crap for trading away guys like Tatis and Gio Gonzalez. He had long standing issues with the way the team was operating internationally as well as it's drafting strategy, which minimized potential.

I understand why there's this impression of Law around here. But it's time to realize that he's not employed just to **** with us. He's pretty damn spot on when it comes to us, and unfortunately it's because we've operated so poorly for so long. He's been generally very positive on our rebuild, but the poor impression remains despite the reality of his analysis.


I don't understand your reasoning on they wanted TA first. Yeah...they wanted our top rated prospect at the time. And after that? Tatis is the guy they thought was next. Why did the Padres realize how good he was? Why did Law? What were these two separate entities doing that we had no idea about? That's what angers me more than the trade. Talent evaluation in the organization has been historically abysmal. Which is why we have a trade that people think is the worst of all time. You can't call it dumb luck when obviously two different parties knew the potential.
Trying to bring this back on topic. If Law actually said that the Sox are going to regret the Shields trade because of Tatis, well then that was a good call by him. But I don't remember ever seeing that (at the time of the trade). Can you produce some evidence?

Everything I remember about that trade was that the big prospect the Sox were giving up was Erik Johnson, who was one of the team's top pitching prospects at the time. In retrospect, they probably saw something in Johnson that they didn't think he was going to end up being successful at the MLB level. They also thought they were "buying low" on Shields. They were right on the first point, wrong on the second. Tatis was the throw-in lottery ticket that backfired.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-19-2019, 05:16 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 5,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Keith Law sure has held the top prospect analyst spot for the largest sports media company on the planet a long time for being terrible at his job.
That's your argument?
__________________
“There were a few hard rules, but everybody was unique, and he understood that. George’s great strength was he didn’t overcoach. There’s no place for panic on the mound.” - Jim Palmer on George Bamberger “Arms and the man,” Sports Illustrated, April 19, 2004
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-19-2019, 07:08 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
That's your argument?

That, and the like 20 other things I brought up.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-19-2019, 07:09 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Trying to bring this back on topic. If Law actually said that the Sox are going to regret the Shields trade because of Tatis, well then that was a good call by him. But I don't remember ever seeing that (at the time of the trade). Can you produce some evidence?

Everything I remember about that trade was that the big prospect the Sox were giving up was Erik Johnson, who was one of the team's top pitching prospects at the time. In retrospect, they probably saw something in Johnson that they didn't think he was going to end up being successful at the MLB level. They also thought they were "buying low" on Shields. They were right on the first point, wrong on the second. Tatis was the throw-in lottery ticket that backfired.

He did, because it was another point of contention for the "hate on Law" crowd. I remember the discussion here. I'll try and look for something when I get a minute. But it was a very long time ago.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.