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  #1  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:13 AM
insp insp is offline
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Default Murray Chass on the Tatis Trade

According to longtime baseball writer Murray Chass, the Tatis trade was "the worst trade of all time."

Agree? Disagree?

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=12104
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  #2  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:31 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Iíll still go with Babe Ruth for cash considerations.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:41 AM
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Iíll still go with Babe Ruth for cash considerations.
Tatis actually has to live up to his projections to say that. It's way too early. Any time a team trades a young player who goes on to have a great career people will talk about it. If Tatis goes on to have a great career certainly people will be talking about it as long as there is baseball to talk about.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:35 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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Looks like it could get there, but calling it that now is premature.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:50 PM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Tatis actually has to live up to his projections to say that. It's way too early. Any time a team trades a young player who goes on to have a great career people will talk about it. If Tatis goes on to have a great career certainly people will be talking about it as long as there is baseball to talk about.
What annoys me is that just about everyone has this kid elected to the Hall of Fame already.

People should wait and see what his career amounts to before assessing this as 'the worst trade of all time" or whatever hyperventilating bull**** phrase the sportswriters use for topics like this. In the meantime, all this ****ing obsessing over it is driving me ****ing crazy.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:57 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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I'll stick as the worst trade of all time, the Cubs trading Lou Brock to the Cardinals for Ernie Broglio in 1964. We all know that Brock went on to have a HOF career while Boglio lasted 3 years with the Flubs. He had arm troubles and won 7 games and lost 19 with a ERA of .540 in those 3 years.
I played a big part in Brock's career, I was a vendor in 1962 at both Comiskey and Wrigley, so on opening day at Wrigley a few of us vendors were sitting out in the LF bleachers before the gates opened watching rookie Brock shagging fly balls and I yelled out to Lou " Good Luck" and threw him a lucky penny and he picked it up and put in his back pocket and said thanks.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Tatis actually has to live up to his projections to say that. It's way too early. Any time a team trades a young player who goes on to have a great career people will talk about it. If Tatis goes on to have a great career certainly people will be talking about it as long as there is baseball to talk about.



True, Tatis has to have a solid career. Baseball has been overpromoting its prospects, and baseball is gong to celebrate the prospects that actual perform when they come up, rather than look like they could perform with some major league experience. That Tatis has an actual pedigree in the way Barry Bonds had a pedigree, adds to the hyperbole.

But unless/until Tatis crashes and burns, the trade is going to haunt Rick Hahn and the White Sox in popular culture. The fact that it's mid-August and the Padres have only one fewer loss with the Padres after bringing up Tatis and signing Machado is less important than the fact that Tatis is living up to expectations and the White Sox gave him away for Shields.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:26 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Tatis actually has to live up to his projections to say that. It's way too early. Any time a team trades a young player who goes on to have a great career people will talk about it. If Tatis goes on to have a great career certainly people will be talking about it as long as there is baseball to talk about.

Vehemently disagree. It's about value optimization when evaluating trades. Even if Tatis never plays another game, the White Sox still gave tremendous in the moment, and in the future value for the most negative value asset in the game at that time.

This year, last year...Tatis Jr.'s value on the trade market was close to untouchable. Name a player. You could have probably had him for Tatis Jr.

Worst of all time? I don't know. Worst trade in my lifetime? Yeah, definitely. There's lots of lopsided deals, but this deal was lopsided as it happened and just got worse. Certainly the dumbest move I've ever seen made by someone with the title of GM.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:47 PM
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Vehemently disagree. It's about value optimization when evaluating trades. Even if Tatis never plays another game, the White Sox still gave tremendous in the moment, and in the future value for the most negative value asset in the game at that time.

This year, last year...Tatis Jr.'s value on the trade market was close to untouchable. Name a player. You could have probably had him for Tatis Jr.

Worst of all time? I don't know. Worst trade in my lifetime? Yeah, definitely. There's lots of lopsided deals, but this deal was lopsided as it happened and just got worse. Certainly the dumbest move I've ever seen made by someone with the title of GM.
NO THEY DIDN'T!

There wasn't a single scouting report on Tatis said he would bust out like this. NONE, ZERO! He was a lottery ticket and it hit.

The rest is revisionist bull****.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:23 PM
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NO THEY DIDN'T!

There wasn't a single scouting report on Tatis said he would bust out like this. NONE, ZERO! He was a lottery ticket and it hit.

The rest is revisionist bull****.

He wasn't a lottery ticket. His father had some baseball skills, and he grew up around professional baseball. He wasn't just any kid from the island who was lost in the system because he hadn't distinguished himself yet. His name alone demanded attention and likely had a lot to do with the White Sox signing him.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:36 PM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
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He wasn't a lottery ticket. His father had some baseball skills, and he grew up around professional baseball. He wasn't just any kid from the island who was lost in the system because he hadn't distinguished himself yet. His name alone demanded attention and likely had a lot to do with the White Sox signing him.
He still wasn’t considered any blue chip prospect at the time of the trade. I revisited the trade thread a while ago, and while some posters were leery of picking up Shields, the posters for the most part were unconcerned about the team gave up to get him. Only one poster that I recall was upset that the Sox gave up Tatis.

Bad trades happen. The Sox have had their fair share.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
He wasn't a lottery ticket. His father had some baseball skills, and he grew up around professional baseball. He wasn't just any kid from the island who was lost in the system because he hadn't distinguished himself yet. His name alone demanded attention and likely had a lot to do with the White Sox signing him.
Great and if every kid who had a dad that played baseball was going to grow up to be a top prospect and have a bust out season then we could probably cut way back on scouting.

It doesn't matter who his dad was. None of the evaluations of his tools showed he had this potential. Name or no name. No one was thinking he was a surefire future stud.

**** the Sox drafted Ozzie's kid and has done the same for other players kids in late rounds. Not a single one of them has ever gone on to become a stud.

Your name does not guarantee great skills. Walter Payton and Michael Jordan both have grown children too.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
NO THEY DIDN'T!

There wasn't a single scouting report on Tatis said he would bust out like this. NONE, ZERO! He was a lottery ticket and it hit.

The rest is revisionist bull****.
No, he was the best regarded prospect in the Sox system at the time of the trade. People didnít necessarily know that he would be an All-Star, although Hahn is now saying (or at least has said) they were aware of the talent they were giving up when they traded Tatis.

More than just trading Tatis was the return, there were lots of warning flags with Shields by the time of the trade in 2016. Shields wasnít even worth a lottery ticket by the time the Padres let him go.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:41 PM
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No, he was the best regarded prospect in the Sox system at the time of the trade. People didn’t necessarily know that he would be an All-Star, although Hahn is now saying (or at least has said) they were aware of the talent they were giving up when they traded Tatis.

More than just trading Tatis was the return, there were lots of warning flags with Shields by the time of the trade in 2016. Shields wasn’t even worth a lottery ticket by the time the Padres let him go.
You got a link to that? He wasn't even a top 30 prospect in the International signing group.

Yeah, here's a link talking about how his throwing arm was considered his best asset and strongly suggesting Eric Johnson was the more coveted piece.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stor...nson-tatis-jr/
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:55 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Great and if every kid who had a dad that played baseball was going to grow up to be a top prospect and have a bust out season then we could probably cut way back on scouting.

It doesn't matter who his dad was. None of the evaluations of his tools showed he had this potential. Name or no name. No one was thinking he was a surefire future stud.

**** the Sox drafted Ozzie's kid and has done the same for other players kids in late rounds. Not a single one of them has ever gone on to become a stud.

Your name does not guarantee great skills. Walter Payton and Michael Jordan both have grown children too.
Well, if itís any consolation, Walterís children have their dadís people skills.
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