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  #46  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:15 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
We have to wait and see who fills out the OF. Is Eloy going to stick in LF? Who takes the spot currently manned by Tilson and Cordell? We can’t go forward with Eloy (or Robert, if Eloy is moved to DH) being the only OF who hits for power. Honestly, since Robert looks like he can stick in CF, we really should be getting power from all 3 OF spots. Instead of looking at plus-power from C and CF as a hedge that allows a guy with minus-power to play a corner OF spot, we should be looking to double down and play to our park’s advantages.
Where have the Sox said that they're satisfied with using players with minus power for the corner OF spots? Seems a bit premature at this point to use this as a reason to say that having Madrigal in the lineup will be problematic. They should address any potential lack of power in the OF spots by acquiring (or developing) adequate OFers, not by looking to replace Nick Madrigal.

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And I’m totally with you on Daniel Palka. I will go even further and say that I don’t even want to see him get another chance up here, as takes the O out of OPS. If we’re being honest with ourselves and not allowing personal like or dislike to cloud our judgment, Abreu makes too many outs as well.

Still, I’m never going to be taking a .320 hitter who hits 10-15 home runs over a .250 hitter who hits 30-35 home runs, just to adhere to some antiquated sense of “balancing the lineup.”
Saying that Madrigal and his potential upside (even with a lack of power) is fine in a lineup otherwise full of pop is not the same thing as saying we want/need him for basically for some sense of balance. Madrigal was drafted because he was arguably the BPA at that time of the draft. It wasn't based on an antiquated sense of balancing the lineup. If we could somehow acquire someone else to play 2B who could play gold glove quality defense, steal bases, hit 35 HRs, and hit .250 a year....well yeah, sign me up - he'd be a great guy to have. But how much would that cost in salary or talent to acquire when those resources could be spent elsewhere?
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  #47  
Old 06-27-2019, 10:53 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
We have to wait and see who fills out the OF. Is Eloy going to stick in LF? Who takes the spot currently manned by Tilson and Cordell? We can’t go forward with Eloy (or Robert, if Eloy is moved to DH) being the only OF who hits for power. Honestly, since Robert looks like he can stick in CF, we really should be getting power from all 3 OF spots. Instead of looking at plus-power from C and CF as a hedge that allows a guy with minus-power to play a corner OF spot, we should be looking to double down and play to our park’s advantages.

And I’m totally with you on Daniel Palka. I will go even further and say that I don’t even want to see him get another chance up here, as takes the O out of OPS. If we’re being honest with ourselves and not allowing personal like or dislike to cloud our judgment, Abreu makes too many outs as well.

Still, I’m never going to be taking a .320 hitter who hits 10-15 home runs over a .250 hitter who hits 30-35 home runs, just to adhere to some antiquated sense of “balancing the lineup.”
Palka's OBP is pushing .400 at AAA currently with a 10%+ walk rate. you don't think he deserves a chance to see if that can translate to the Major League level?
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  #48  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:53 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Palka's OBP is pushing .400 at AAA currently with a 10%+ walk rate. you don't think he deserves a chance to see if that can translate to the Major League level?
Iíll pass. He still has a strikeout rate hovering around 23-24%, not really much of an improvement on his career minor league mark of 26%. If he faces major league pitching, I think the OBP will drop back down to the sub-.300 level we saw last year.
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  #49  
Old 06-28-2019, 12:09 AM
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I’ll pass. He still has a strikeout rate hovering around 23-24%, not really much of an improvement on his career minor league mark of 26%. If he faces major league pitching, I think the OBP will drop back down to the sub-.300 level we saw last year.
That's your right but the simple fact is the K rate is down and almost all those AB are now BB. If he can simply raise his OBP to .330 His OPS jumps over .800 and that's viable MLB hitter any way you slice it. He deserves a chance to see if he can do that based on the season he's had at Charlotte and the Sox would be flat out stupid not to give him that chance unless someone is willing to make an offer on him either alone or in a package that blows them away.
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  #50  
Old 06-28-2019, 07:41 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...alkada01.shtml

Palka's had ~500 PA's in the MLB and his slash line is .223/.285/.449 with a whopping -0.2 bWAR for his career. He can't field, get on base, hit, or run. He can hit a ball far; that's it. He's 27 years old.

People are acting like he hasn't had a chance at the MLB level. He had 500 chances. The guy is a AAAA DH. He doesn't have the ceiling of someone like Moncada and he doesn't have time on his side.

Maybe I'm wrong; maybe he makes a massive adjustment and starts raking, but history suggests it won't happen.
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  #51  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:20 AM
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...alkada01.shtml

Palka's had ~500 PA's in the MLB and his slash line is .223/.285/.449 with a whopping -0.2 bWAR for his career. He can't field, get on base, hit, or run. He can hit a ball far; that's it. He's 27 years old.

People are acting like he hasn't had a chance at the MLB level. He had 500 chances. The guy is a AAAA DH. He doesn't have the ceiling of someone like Moncada and he doesn't have time on his side.

Maybe I'm wrong; maybe he makes a massive adjustment and starts raking, but history suggests it won't happen.
Guess it depends on if he actually has improved his eye. He's also been playing 1B this year and last I checked the Sox just got an opening for a LF 1B/DH type...
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  #52  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:50 AM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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Madrigal needs conditioning and weight room time more than anything. He's isn't a traditional slap hitter, but slaps the ball for plate coverage. He has multiple approaches. The bigger issue is that his approach doesn't necessarily lend to more power or harder hit balls. So the best way to improve his outcomes involve strengthening. Otherwise, I think he could be an average outcome player in the league right now. I don't think bringing him up is rushing him, but he's a few years away from plus production.
A little weight room maybe, but the guy doesn't need conditioning. He is showing that he can hit so far, so all I ask is that the Sox don't F him up with forcing him to be something he is not. I will take a mega singles/doubles hitter that steals 30 and plays great D any day of the week. I don't care if he ever hits a HR in his entire career as the guy could be a modern day Nellie with speed.
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  #53  
Old 06-28-2019, 09:17 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Palka's ceiling is pinch-hitter/bench player. I could see him play that role on a good team, if things go well for him. I think it's overly optimistic to project him as a starter at any position.
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  #54  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:36 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Daniel Palka was barely an average major leaguer last year as a part time specialist. In what should be any player's prime.

If you want to bring him up as 1B/OF depth for the rest of the season while guys develop, I get that. But in no way, shape, or form should the thought be developing Daniel Palka. He already is his best self, and it's severely lacking.
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  #55  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:46 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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I mean, Palka is a left-handed hitter who hit 27 home runs in an MLB season. If he can be anything like his 2018 self, rather than like his 2019 MLB self, he seems like a useful guy to come off the bench, even on a good team.

But people on WSI seem to mostly either want to anoint Palka the Sox 1B of the future, or banish him entirely to the land of wind and ghosts.
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  #56  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
I mean, Palka is a left-handed hitter who hit 27 home runs in an MLB season. If he can be anything like his 2018 self, rather than like his 2019 MLB self, he seems like a useful guy to come off the bench, even on a good team.

But people on WSI seem to mostly either want to anoint Palka the Sox 1B of the future, or banish him entirely to the land of wind and ghosts.
Exactly. I'm not advocating for Palka to be given a starting role going forward, but why not see whether his greatly improved walk rate and reduced K rate will carry over to higher level. I've said it repeatedly, but I think his issues early this year were because he was overthinking and getting caught in between on whether to swing or take pitches. He clearly was working on his walk rate this spring and when the season went live he couldn't pull the trigger. That carried over when he first was sent down but then he started to find his stroke again and the walk rate has stayed high.

Might as well see what he offers, at worst he's a LH DH platoon (70% of AB) who can cover 1B and RF in a pinch or when someone needs a day off. Now if only there were an opening for a guy like that on the current team because a very similar player who completely lost it offensively had just been cut...
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  #57  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:36 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Heffalump View Post
A little weight room maybe, but the guy doesn't need conditioning. He is showing that he can hit so far, so all I ask is that the Sox don't F him up with forcing him to be something he is not. I will take a mega singles/doubles hitter that steals 30 and plays great D any day of the week. I don't care if he ever hits a HR in his entire career as the guy could be a modern day Nellie with speed.
Agreed. I mean sure, I expect that strength training is part of is development plan anyway. But I hope they don't mess him up by trying to make him something that he's not.

If Madrigal lives up to his ceiling, he's always going to have his detractors because of the lack of power. But I think he'll fit in great in our future projected lineup if he can keep up his elite hitting ability, great defense, steals a bunch of bases, and can develop an ability to hit a good number of doubles.

Oh and don't forget, he looks like the kind of guy who will lead the league in TWTW!
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  #58  
Old 06-28-2019, 11:59 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
I mean, Palka is a left-handed hitter who hit 27 home runs in an MLB season. If he can be anything like his 2018 self, rather than like his 2019 MLB self, he seems like a useful guy to come off the bench, even on a good team.

But people on WSI seem to mostly either want to anoint Palka the Sox 1B of the future, or banish him entirely to the land of wind and ghosts.
Maybe- but in an era where you're carrying 12-13 pitchers- dedicating a roster spot to a platoon DH (vs. RHP only) might not make a whole lot of sense....especially compared to a player like Collins who can play the DH vs. RHP role along with catching and playing some 1st base.
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  #59  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:50 AM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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Daniel Palka was barely an average major leaguer last year as a part time specialist. In what should be any player's prime.

If you want to bring him up as 1B/OF depth for the rest of the season while guys develop, I get that. But in no way, shape, or form should the thought be developing Daniel Palka. He already is his best self, and it's severely lacking.
An average player typically has a prime around 27-29. It's the better than average players that hit at an earlier age. Superstars hit it even sooner.
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  #60  
Old 06-29-2019, 11:05 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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An sverage player typically has a prime around 27-29. It's the better than average players that hit at an earlier age. Superstars hit it even sooner.
That would make last year, this year, and next year Palkaís prime (26.5, 27.5, 28.5). That proves his point.
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