White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 06-09-2019, 10:10 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
The desire to see Anderson, Moncada and Eloy hit 1-2-3 is in part so they maximize the number of AB they get this year also. Since it's still a rebuilding year the idea is to get them through their growing pains faster. Not saying I completely agree, but I do understand the reasoning.
I think “games played” is a more important measure of experience than “at bats.”
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-09-2019, 02:08 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 20,727
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
I think “games played” is a more important measure of experience than “at bats.”
The leadoff slot in the lineup averages roughly 600 plate appearances in a season. For every spot lower in the lineup, subtract roughly 13 to 15 plate appearances over a season. The difference between hitting third and sixth, then, is about 45 plate appearances. The difference between leading off and hitting seventh, then, is about 82 or 83 plate appearances over a full season.

Rick Renteria is choosing to give Leury Garcia more plate appearances than Tim Anderson, and choosing to reduce Eloy’s plate appearances so that Alonso and often Castillo can have more.

In a rebuilding/growing year, I want our young players - who are expected to be around when we are contending - getting as many plate appearances as possible. That means Anderson, Moncada, and Eloy hitting in the first inning of every game.
__________________
The universe is the practical joke of the General at the expense of the Particular, quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow. Others laughed, seeing the Universal Joke. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though FRATER laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-09-2019, 05:20 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 20,727
Blog Entries: 1
Default

In his last 7 games, Eloy has a .948 OPS. So not only is having him hit third - behind Anderson and Moncada and ahead of Abreu - what’s best for him developmentally, but it also would maximize the chances to score runs in bunches.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-09-2019, 08:16 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 15,770
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Beyond the number of plate appearances you want a guy who can get on base to bat right before the best hitters, who presumably are slotted 2-5 (emphasis on presumably).
I don't have a problem batting Leury lead-off in a development year, although I'd spread it around some to give other guys experience there...especially considering the rest of the lineup moves around a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:09 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 20,727
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Beyond the number of plate appearances you want a guy who can get on base to bat right before the best hitters, who presumably are slotted 2-5 (emphasis on presumably).
I don't have a problem batting Leury lead-off in a development year, although I'd spread it around some to give other guys experience there...especially considering the rest of the lineup moves around a lot.
In a year when development/growth is paramount, given who is on the roster presently, it really should be:

Anderson
Moncada
Eloy
Abreu
Alonso/McCann
McCann/Castillo
Yolmer
Tilson/Cordell
Leury - let him turn over the lineup
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:31 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plainfield
Posts: 12,617
Default

Anderson is not a lead off hitter. He may be our fastest runner, but thats about his only lead off skill. He is a much better run producer than table setter.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:49 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 20,727
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Anderson is not a lead off hitter. He may be our fastest runner, but thats about his only lead off skill. He is a much better run producer than table setter.
The Sox don’t have a table setter. And they aren’t competing this year. So let’s get Anderson, Moncada, and Eloy the most plate appearances by having them hit 1-2-3.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:15 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 15,770
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Yolmer
Tilson/Cordell
Leury - let him turn over the lineup
Leury is "regressing to the mean" (or to below the mean really) and Yolmer is Yolmer, so I'd go with rotations:
Yolmer/Rondon/Leury
Leury/Tilson/Cordell

4 of the 5 bat right, so it's hard to perfectly use them.
Another thing I would do is bat the base-stealers 6th and 7th unless they have exceptionally high OBPs. The effect of base-stealers is to lower their OBP (a caught stealing has the same net effect as an out) but raise their SLG (a stolen base turns a single into a double).
This really has nothing to do with Renteria, so I guess I'm hijacking. Sorry.

Last edited by Tragg; 06-10-2019 at 08:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:25 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
The leadoff slot in the lineup averages roughly 600 plate appearances in a season. For every spot lower in the lineup, subtract roughly 13 to 15 plate appearances over a season. The difference between hitting third and sixth, then, is about 45 plate appearances. The difference between leading off and hitting seventh, then, is about 82 or 83 plate appearances over a full season.
I understand the math. But my point is that I don't think those extra 80 or so plate appearances make that much of a difference in terms of a player's development. I don't think you can just put a guy in the leadoff spot and say that since he's getting 15% more plate appearances then he's going to develop 15% faster. In some cases it could be the opposite - more plate appearances leads to reinforcing bad habits. Besides, if Anderson is going to change his approach in order to be a leadoff hitter, do you really want him practicing that if that's not the position he's going to hit in once the games start to "matter" in 2020 and beyond?

A lot of the learning that players go through happens outside of the nine innings of game play that we get to see. In the batting cages, looking at film, trying to understand how pitchers are attacking you, etc. I don't think the 80 plate appearances really make that much of a difference. It does give us as fans a bigger sample size on which to judge a player's performance, though.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:35 AM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,497
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
I understand the math. But my point is that I don't think those extra 80 or so plate appearances make that much of a difference in terms of a player's development. I don't think you can just put a guy in the leadoff spot and say that since he's getting 15% more plate appearances then he's going to develop 15% faster. In some cases it could be the opposite - more plate appearances leads to reinforcing bad habits. Besides, if Anderson is going to change his approach in order to be a leadoff hitter, do you really want him practicing that if that's not the position he's going to hit in once the games start to "matter" in 2020 and beyond?

A lot of the learning that players go through happens outside of the nine innings of game play that we get to see. In the batting cages, looking at film, trying to understand how pitchers are attacking you, etc. I don't think the 80 plate appearances really make that much of a difference. It does give us as fans a bigger sample size on which to judge a player's performance, though.
Especially since we're talking 20 AB between now and the end of the season when comparing the 5 hitter to the 3 hitter. It's just not that big of a deal. Going forward in years to come Moncada probably bats third unless Eloy develops into a serious for average hitter (which is possible) but:

1: Robert
2. Madrigal
3. Moncada
4. Vaughn
5. Eloy
6. Anderson
7. Collins
8. DH (Burger? Sheets?)
9. RF (Tilson? Basabe? FA?)

Makes me
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:32 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
The Sox don’t have a table setter. And they aren’t competing this year. So let’s get Anderson, Moncada, and Eloy the most plate appearances by having them hit 1-2-3.
You have to find a balance between finding the most ABs for these guys and putting them in situations they are most comfortable enough to grow and develop. Anderson's splits will tell you he is clearly a better hitter when batting 6-7, which he also profiles best in the future. Eloy has already admitted to trying to do too much and be the hero on the team, so batting him at 3 would put even more pressure on him.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:14 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,082
Default

Fear not! Jon Jay is coming to the rescue in about a week!

Seriously, though. After providing lousy offensive performance in about 75% of his plate appearances, the only way Leury’s “red-hot bat” will be moved out of the leadoff spot is when Jay supplants him.

Why is that? Because under Renteria, the only acceptable way to replace a bad veteran that the organization inexplicably loves is with another bad veteran that the organization inexplicably loves.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and let’s fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:04 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 15,770
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Mindless bunting is such a huge, ugly wart and defeatist strategy that it tends to hide everything else. He appears to have stopped that (I presume Hahn had a sit-down with him), and that = major progress.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:48 AM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,497
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Mindless bunting is such a huge, ugly wart and defeatist strategy that it tends to hide everything else. He appears to have stopped that (I presume Hahn had a sit-down with him), and that = major progress.
I'd be pretty surprised if the GM of any team has sitdowns with the managers to tell them how to manage. It might simply be that the hitters are proving that bunting is not as necessary because they are likely to get hits. Might also have to do with pitching matchups or other factors.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-15-2019, 11:34 AM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I'd be pretty surprised if the GM of any team has sitdowns with the managers to tell them how to manage. It might simply be that the hitters are proving that bunting is not as necessary because they are likely to get hits. Might also have to do with pitching matchups or other factors.
I'd be surprised if GMs didn't dictate to their manager how to manage a game. I'd imagine most teams have numbers people in the clubhouse telling their manager what to do in a given situation.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:31 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.