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  #31  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
Yes, I understand the Sox are rebuilding, but I don't go along with the notion that the win-loss record doesn't matter. If the rebuilding is working, you would at least see an improvement even if the team isn't at .500.

I don't hate Hahn, and at least the organization is focused on a strategy. However, I am not investing a great deal of emotion in it. The losing began before the rebuild, and the organization has credibility with many fans.

I don't expect to see any winning until 2021 and it might not happen then. The rebuilding explanation can be used for only so long. There is some reason for hope, but there are still many question marks.

I believe the record for most consecutive losing seasons for the Sox franchise is nine. If the team hits that mark, what will it say to its fans then?
Agreed, but THIS SEASON is part of that rebuild. Window is supposed to start to open starting next season. If Kopech doesn't get hurt maybe this year is different, but he did.
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  #32  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:22 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I guess that depends on if you expect to win the last two years and this one. If not because you recognize the rebuild is ongoing then he certainly has, just not for today.

I understand it's hard to watch the Sox lose, but your statement ignores the reality of the moment - the Sox are rebuilding.
I think you're kind of ignoring that the Sox weren't supposed to be rebuilding in 2013 or 2015 and 2016.

It would be one thing if Hahn took over and started with a complete rebuild, but he didn't. The team was rebuilding in 2014 and after the trade deadline in 2013, but 2015 and 2016 were supposed to be competitive teams and they were awful.
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  #33  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:30 AM
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He's likely to decline, so this is probably the end of the Ervin Santana era.
What a mess.
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  #34  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I think you're kind of ignoring that the Sox weren't supposed to be rebuilding in 2013 or 2015 and 2016.

It would be one thing if Hahn took over and started with a complete rebuild, but he didn't. The team was rebuilding in 2014 and after the trade deadline in 2013, but 2015 and 2016 were supposed to be competitive teams and they were awful.
I agree the results in those years were bad based on the desired outcome. I'm merely pointing out the data set also includes the last couple years when the Sox were actively trying to tank which does skew the sample negatively.
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  #35  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:33 AM
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What a mess.
Gave it a shot. Didn't cost anything but money and not much of it by MLB standards. His last healthy season he was fine and last year was cut short by an injury to his finger. Now they can call up Covey or whoever next week and give them or Banuelos the starts going forward.
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  #36  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:37 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Agreed, but THIS SEASON is part of that rebuild. Window is supposed to start to open starting next season. If Kopech doesn't get hurt maybe this year is different, but he did.
The front office never laid out an exact timeline, but I believe there was supposed to marked improvement this season. Now Kopech losing an entire season really set things back, but even if you have huge improvements from Moncada, Anderson and Eloy, there are still a LOT of holes in the roster that need to be filled for the team to contend in 2020.
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  #37  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LakeShoreSox View Post
What a mess.

That's just a start of the sunk cost coming. It's sunk cost that truly there was no need for. Knowing well your chances of contending were a pipe dream. Let damn kids play and lose your 95 games

Jon Jay will be another one coming. Other than being Machado's Cabana Boy, there was no need for that.

If Alonso doesn't stop playing pepper with the right side of the IF, that's another one there.

Nate Jones?

Nova? He should be but at $9 million not gonna happen.
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  #38  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Gave it a shot. Didn't cost anything but money and not much of it by MLB standards. His last healthy season he was fine and last year was cut short by an injury to his finger. Now they can call up Covey or whoever next week and give them or Banuelos the starts going forward.
The only thing about the Santana signing that bothers me is it again speaks poorly of the organization's ability to scout and sign major league talent. Santana signed for double what Gio signed for too.
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  #39  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:46 AM
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Lot of spite in this thread. Shows how pissed people get when veterans suck while on a young team.
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  #40  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:59 AM
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Right? How dare we criticize bad moves.

Edit: DFA'ing Santana is a good move!
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  #41  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:05 PM
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the only thing about the santana signing that bothers me is it again speaks poorly of the organization's ability to scout and sign major league talent. Santana signed for double what gio signed for too.
100%.
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  #42  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:06 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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The only thing about the Santana signing that bothers me is it again speaks poorly of the organization's ability to scout and sign major league talent. Santana signed for double what Gio signed for too.
I didn't have a problem with the Santana signing. But we knew we'd have rotation holes. My bigger issue is they COUNTED on Santana. They COUNTED on Nova. That's a lot of innings that we don't have anyone in our organization to throw. If you're going to go the "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" route to filling out your rotation, you need to sign three or four of these low cost lottery guys per slot available because you're lucky if more than one sticks.
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  #43  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:12 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I didn't have a problem with the Santana signing. But we knew we'd have rotation holes. My bigger issue is they COUNTED on Santana. They COUNTED on Nova. That's a lot of innings that we don't have anyone in our organization to throw. If you're going to go the "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" route to filling out your rotation, you need to sign three or four of these low cost lottery guys per slot available because you're lucky if more than one sticks.
The whole "eat up innings" thing is so overrated and antiquated, especially in this era and when you are not contending.

There are always bodies available to get thru it.

Some teams are not even using SPs to open up games.
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  #44  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
The front office never laid out an exact timeline, but I believe there was supposed to marked improvement this season. Now Kopech losing an entire season really set things back, but even if you have huge improvements from Moncada, Anderson and Eloy, there are still a LOT of holes in the roster that need to be filled for the team to contend in 2020.
You are correct, but that is the generally accepted timeline. I agree if things don't take a marked turn for the better next year and guys like Gio, Lopez, Cease and Burdi don't start showing they can be consistent parts of a playoff caliber team things are in trouble. Just saying this season is still part of the "lost years".

And again, I don't think most people expect 2020 to be a WS title team, but it should be the time when we see that window open and a wild card or division championship should be in reach that season if things go well.
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  #45  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
The only thing about the Santana signing that bothers me is it again speaks poorly of the organization's ability to scout and sign major league talent. Santana signed for double what Gio signed for too.
There was no real way to scout Santana. It was based on his performance from two years ago with the hope his finger healing would allow him to return to that form.
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