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  #46  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:37 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marqhead View Post
Stanton was coming off .281/59/132...
And should be a DH. His pre-17 career isn’t all that impressive, he’s never had Nolan’s hit tool. Nolan plays elite 3b D, Stanton played average at his best corner OF D. His power tool outside of one season have been at the very least equal to Stanton.

Arenado is just an all around much better and more valuable player.
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:41 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Also, Derek Jeter got lambasted for that trade to his pinstripes.
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  #48  
Old 01-13-2020, 03:22 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
And should be a DH. His pre-17 career isnít all that impressive, heís never had Nolanís hit tool. Nolan plays elite 3b D, Stanton played average at his best corner OF D. His power tool outside of one season have been at the very least equal to Stanton.

Arenado is just an all around much better and more valuable player.
Of course Arenado plays better defense, but his offensive numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt due to this home ballpark. I know you're not an "advanced stat" guy, but it's commonly accepted around baseball that Coors Field inflates offensive numbers. Since you don't like advanced stats, how's this: Arenado is a career .324 hitter with 129 HR and 446 RBIs at home, and .265 with 98 HR and 288 RBIs on the road. If you trade for Arenado, you don't get to take his home field with you, and teams know this.

Also, again Stanton was coming off an MVP season. His trade value in 2017 was at least comparable to Arenado's today.
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:18 PM
eriqjaffe eriqjaffe is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
And should be a DH. His pre-17 career isnít all that impressive, heís never had Nolanís hit tool. Nolan plays elite 3b D, Stanton played average at his best corner OF D. His power tool outside of one season have been at the very least equal to Stanton.

Arenado is just an all around much better and more valuable player.
There's always the Coors Field effect to consider - Arenado's a career .265/.323/.476 hitter outside of Colorado. Granted, the defense is elite regardless.
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:35 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Paying Arenado $35 AAV is not a problem. Giving up a massive prospect haul for Arenado is not a problem. The problem is having to do both.

At $35 AAV, a typical Arenado season provides somewhere between $10 and $15 of surplus value. That surplus value would decrease with a change in ballparks.

If Colorado wants premier prospects in the deal, then they need to eat salary, or they need to trade Gray or Story in the same package.
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  #51  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:43 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
And should be a DH. His pre-17 career isnít all that impressive, heís never had Nolanís hit tool. Nolan plays elite 3b D, Stanton played average at his best corner OF D. His power tool outside of one season have been at the very least equal to Stanton.

Arenado is just an all around much better and more valuable player.
I would love to play along here, but if you are eliminating Stanton - at the time he was traded - you are really, really artificially narrowing yourself to a universe of players so small that your position simply can't be contested. He had just come off a 7.3 WAR season. 7.3.

Also, what about Chris Sale?
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  #52  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I would love to play along here, but if you are eliminating Stanton - at the time he was traded - you are really, really artificially narrowing yourself to a universe of players so small that your position simply can't be contested. He had just come off a 7.3 WAR season. 7.3.

Also, what about Chris Sale?
I just don't think it's comparable. One guy has four elite tools and the other had power. One was coming off a season where that one tool was the best in the game after a slew of seasons where the majority dont even come close to skirting the edges of the other's worst season in his five consecutive elite years. I've always viewed Stanton as among the most overrated players in baseball.

I'll also repeat, that regardless.of my view of Stanton, Jeter and Marlins ownership got dragged through a cactus field after that deal.

One green GM, who probably shouldn't even have been given that job, trading a lesser player that sloped toward the franchise he spent his entire HOF career with doesn't change my mind.

What about Chris Sale? We got two guys for him who are each better prospects than the entirety of this reported offer. Sale was on the best contract in sports which helps, but he also had injury concerns.
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  #53  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:14 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
I just don't think it's comparable. One guy has four elite tools and the other had power. One was coming off a season where that one tool was the best in the game after a slew of seasons where the majority dont even come close to skirting the edges of the other's worst season in his five consecutive elite years. I've always viewed Stanton as among the most overrated players in baseball.

I'll also repeat, that regardless.of my view of Stanton, Jeter and Marlins ownership got dragged through a cactus field after that deal.

One green GM, who probably shouldn't even have been given that job, trading a lesser player that sloped toward the franchise he spent his entire HOF career with doesn't change my mind.

What about Chris Sale? We got two guys for him who are each better prospects than the entirety of this reported offer. Sale was on the best contract in sports which helps, but he also had injury concerns.
That is the entire point. The hit tool and the power tool do not profile as ďeliteĒ away from Coors Field. His career .211 ISO on the road would have tied him for 69th in MLB last year with Paul DeJong and Corey Seager. His career .265 average on the road would have tied him for 81st in MLB last year with Eric Hosmer, Shin-Soo Choo, and Jorge Soler. His career .323 OBP on the road would have tied him for 103rd in MLB with Amed Rosario and Jean Segura.
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  #54  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:59 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
That is the entire point. The hit tool and the power tool do not profile as ďeliteĒ away from Coors Field. His career .211 ISO on the road would have tied him for 69th in MLB last year with Paul DeJong and Corey Seager. His career .265 average on the road would have tied him for 81st in MLB last year with Eric Hosmer, Shin-Soo Choo, and Jorge Soler. His career .323 OBP on the road would have tied him for 103rd in MLB with Amed Rosario and Jean Segura.
Yet the people who actually know what talent looks (managers, scouts and executives) literally just voted him among the best hitters in the league to along with the votes heís gotten for it in the same poll the past five seasons. But what do I know?

Trading him for anything less than superstar potential would be a total failure.
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  #55  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:08 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Yet the people who actually know what talent looks (managers, scouts and executives) literally just voted him among the best hitters in the league to along with the votes heís gotten for it in the same poll the past five seasons. But what do I know?

Trading him for anything less than superstar potential would be a total failure.
Yeah, Iím not gonna lie. I completely disagree with the idea that Arenado is the 3rd-best hitter in the NL.
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  #56  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Yeah, Iím not gonna lie. I completely disagree with the idea that Arenado is the 3rd-best hitter in the NL.
You know who doesnít? Professionals who get paid to evaluate baseball players.
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  #57  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:32 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
You know who doesnít? Professionals who get paid to evaluate baseball players.
Meh. Ricky Renteria is a professional who gets paid to evaluate baseball players, too.

Off the top of my head, Iíll take the bats of Yelich, Bellinger, Soto, and AcuŮa over Arenado. That moves him down to 5th at best.
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  #58  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Meh. Ricky Renteria is a professional who gets paid to evaluate baseball players, too.

Off the top of my head, I’ll take the bats of Yelich, Bellinger, Soto, and AcuŮa over Arenado. That moves him down to 5th at best.
On a side, I hope Rick kills it because he’s been a glorified nanny his entire time here and deserves a chance with an actual MLB squad.

Yeah, Soto and Acuna haven’t done what he’s done yet, let alone for five straight years. The other two are also as good as anyone in baseball not named Trout, just like Arenado.
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  #59  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:27 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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I hope Arenado is traded to the Giants for Samardzija. I don't care who else SF gives up; I just want a Shark-nado trade.
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  #60  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:47 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Honestly, hearing the names being tossed around for Arenado makes me wonder if the White Sox can come up with an offer.

Something like Lopez, Madrigal, and Dunning may be acceptable as an alternative to that rumored Hudson, Liberatore, and OíNeill package. Plus, we would not be insisting on sending back salary, like St. Louis reportedly is by including Martinez or Carpenter in the deal. Instead, we may even be able to seal the deal by taking on some bad money, like a Fry-for-McGee swap or a Cordero-for-Shaw swap. Or just switch both, and replace Dunning with someone like Basabe, Gonzalez, Adolfo, or another pitcher.

Lopez, Madrigal, Basabe, Cordero, and Fry for Arenado, Shaw, and McGee.

Itís definitely a risk, given that Arenado may bail after only 2 years. On the flip side, the only guy that really gives me apprehension is Madrigal, and you have to give something to get something.

Considering that the Twins have done absolutely nothing this offseason, it looks like a prime opportunity to go for the kill. It may even force a wishy-washy Indians front office to **** or get off the pot regarding Lindor and Clevinger.
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