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  #271  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:20 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
OK. Now we can move on and focus on more important moves, like finding takers for Abreu and Avi.
While I agree they both should be moved for the right offer, just warning everyone here not to expect a quicker arrival to competitive baseball if that happens.

I think the Sox front office is itching to compete sooner than later and will try to keep Abreu at the very least.
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  #272  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:20 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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And the Sox got a ton of press and did nothing so far. Nice work on reminding all there are two teams in chicago.
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  #273  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:44 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Machado is now apparently OFF the table:

https://twitter.com/DanClarkSports/s...91957992894464 #Orioles arenít going to trade Machado - werenít happy with the offers.
Like I said...

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Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
Meanwhile, all we have to go on is rumor. And current rumor says both that the Sox made the top offer and that they did not offer any of their top prospects. I think that makes it pretty clear that the return for 1 year of Machado is not going to be all that high if he gets traded at all.
... the return for 1 year of Machado wasn't all that high. Not enough for the Orioles to decide it was worth more than keeping him.

I suspect the White Sox are in the same position with Abreu and Avi both. On the one hand there are other options at 1B and OF than those two guys which drives down their price and in both cases the White Sox have good reason to value them more than their price is likely to be. Abreu is now, and will be in the future, the leader of this team of youngsters while also being a productive and saleable bat. Avi may well be fore real in which case keeping a young All-Star is probably worth more than other teams are willing to risk on what may be a one-year wonder.

The good news is that keeping them speeds up the rebuild process. The bad news is that not getting the prospects for them, and having a better win-loss record in 2018-2019 as a result of keeping them, means the White Sox won't get as much quality younger talent showing up mid-2020's to help keep a sustained era of winning going.
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  #274  
Old 12-20-2017, 10:41 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White
The good news is that keeping them speeds up the rebuild process. The bad news is that not getting the prospects for them, and having a better win-loss record in 2018-2019 as a result of keeping them, means the White Sox won't get as much quality younger talent showing up mid-2020's to help keep a sustained era of winning going.
That’s why I would like the team to strike while the iron is hot. Once the team starts getting better, the influx of young talent grinds to a halt. That’s why I want them to get whatever young talent comes from Abreu and Avi trades, get another high draft pick in 2019 based on 2018’s losses, and then focus on developing all that talent. That development will take a few years in it’s own right, so I’m not inclined to make any decisions based on a belief that they will accelerate the team’s rebuild.

Good players with short-term contracts are superfluous on rebuilding teams. Furthermore, the last thing I want to see this team do is get impatient and abandon the plan prematurely. I want them to wait it out, “trust the process,” and maximize their chances for sustained success.
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Last edited by Mohoney; 12-20-2017 at 10:58 PM.
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  #275  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:01 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
Like I said...



... the return for 1 year of Machado wasn't all that high. Not enough for the Orioles to decide it was worth more than keeping him.

I suspect the White Sox are in the same position with Abreu and Avi both. On the one hand there are other options at 1B and OF than those two guys which drives down their price and in both cases the White Sox have good reason to value them more than their price is likely to be. Abreu is now, and will be in the future, the leader of this team of youngsters while also being a productive and saleable bat. Avi may well be fore real in which case keeping a young All-Star is probably worth more than other teams are willing to risk on what may be a one-year wonder.

The good news is that keeping them speeds up the rebuild process. The bad news is that not getting the prospects for them, and having a better win-loss record in 2018-2019 as a result of keeping them, means the White Sox won't get as much quality younger talent showing up mid-2020's to help keep a sustained era of winning going.
Can we at least get the current crop here before we worry about the next crop? I mean we've got 8 years to draft and develop the 2025 replacements. Not sure anyone we would get for Avi and Abreu now would still be around at that time. They'd either be gone in Rule 5, already on the team or traded themselves for veterans to put the team over the top for playoff runs as they surely will be forced to do at some point in time.

No way are they trading anyone now for players to develop and be ready in 2023-27. Those players are yet to be drafted or acquired in a few years. It's just too far off to be thinking that way at all.
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  #276  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:38 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
Like I said...



... the return for 1 year of Machado wasn't all that high. Not enough for the Orioles to decide it was worth more than keeping him.
There was no return for Machado, as he hasn't been traded. Trades involving affordable star players don't materialize all that quickly. There are still months left in the offseason, then 4 more months until the trade deadline to find out what he will fetch. BAL saying they aren't trading him all of a sudden means nothing, it's all about maximizing his return. Britton was just lost for most of the season, they will likely be trading Machado at some point.
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  #277  
Old 12-21-2017, 07:32 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Other than sign a catcher the White Sox have done nothing to improve the team for 2018. I wish they would do something about the bullpen. If something isn't done to improve the bullpen 2018 is going to be another long season.
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  #278  
Old 12-21-2017, 07:38 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Other than sign a catcher the White Sox have done nothing to improve the team for 2018. I wish they would do something about the bullpen. If something isn't done to improve the bullpen 2018 is going to be another long season.
This organization does not intend to compete in 2018.

Realize that and you'll save yourself a *lot* of time, frustration, and ranting.

It's not a bad thing; it's just the truth, and they've been fairly transparent about it. So stop, unless you're trolling.
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  #279  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:09 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I'm not trolling. I simply don't like to lose games. The starting rotation could possibly be good in 2018. The same can't be said about the bullpen. They gutted the entire bullpen the second half of the season and you have nobody to save any games. NOBODY. You could have a situation this season where the starting rotation could have a high number of quality starts and the team could still lose 100 games. This bullpen has to be upgraded. I've mentioned before I thought trading David Robertson was nuts. Who would you rather have in the bullpen this upcoming season, Robertson or any of the present members in our bullpen?
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  #280  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:35 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
I simply don't like to lose games.
Neither do I. But unfortunately the team's farm system was so bad that unless they struck lightening in a bottle like they did 12 years ago, they weren't going to be good any time soon. So the options were 1) keep trying for it year after year (which they did for 10 years and got no where) or 2) say screw it, blow it up, lose for a few years with the hopes they'll be good by 2020.

I hate losing. Hate it. But it's a little easier to stomach if the losing can help them be better in the future.
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  #281  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:51 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I listen to the SouthSideSox podcast religiously. On the most recent podcast, they reported that one of the analytics sites predicted the Sox would win 63 games in 2018. I'm not here to debate the merits of predictive analytics, but I think it's safe to say that, outside of a miracle, the Sox won't be in postseason contention in 2018.

With that said, and given the price of relief pitching, and given how relievers are notoriously inconsistent from year to year (or even within a year), maybe it's not the best idea to spend on the 2018 bullpen.

Maybe its better to sign a couple of veteran starters to one-year deals who are looking to rebuild their games in the hopes of securing one last multi-year deal in 2019, who would go to the bullpen for long relief roles when Rodon returns and when Kopech gets called up to the Sox.
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  #282  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:54 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Most people agree that last year's team, which won 67 games, was more fun to watch than the 2016 team which won 78.

I don't mind losing when it comes with young players with unbelievable talent, role players busting their butts to win playing time, and a manager who doesn't have his head up his ass.

This has been debated to death and doesn't belong in a Machado thread.
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  #283  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:31 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
I'm not trolling. I simply don't like to lose games. The starting rotation could possibly be good in 2018.
Not with Rodon hurt and Shields in it, to go along with two or three young developing pitchers.

Simply..not..happening.
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  #284  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:15 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Thatís why I would like the team to strike while the iron is hot. Once the team starts getting better, the influx of young talent grinds to a halt. Thatís why I want them to get whatever young talent comes from Abreu and Avi trades, get another high draft pick in 2019 based on 2018ís losses, and then focus on developing all that talent. That development will take a few years in itís own right, so Iím not inclined to make any decisions based on a belief that they will accelerate the teamís rebuild.

Good players with short-term contracts are superfluous on rebuilding teams. Furthermore, the last thing I want to see this team do is get impatient and abandon the plan prematurely. I want them to wait it out, ďtrust the process,Ē and maximize their chances for sustained success.

I disagree only with this part. Just because you get good doesn't mean automatically you are entitled to go back to your old ways of being irresponsible to drafting and player development. In fact many of the better teams keep this critical lifeline going as we've seen with the Dodgers, Red Sox, Cardinals, and Yankees.

I'm very interested in seeing how Theo recovers a well depleted farm right now. If he does, despite not having his shortcut methods MLB has taken away from him, he'll have the Cubs in that group noted up there.

This is where the Sox want to be.
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  #285  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:44 PM
blurry blurry is offline
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Theo has the Cubs' massive resources to work with. He's always been with teams who have a ton of money and sway with the league.

I would like to see him do this with a team like the Reds. Not saying he couldn't...
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