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  #16  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:07 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Because some people are inherently negative and refuse to accept the reality of the situation, or just don't understand that DOB is a very important "stat" when evaluating player performance.


When a 22/23 year old in his first year in the majors is derailed by injuries at the beginning of the season, you can't just expect him to come back like a 5 year veteran would. Patience is required for true baseball growth, unfortunately all fan bases are loaded with meatballs who expect kids to come out of the minors and be immediate all stars. Juan Soto is the exception, not the rule.
The heck with Juan Soto. What about Ronald Ocuna Jr? Moncada was supposed to be the Numero uno prospect in the entire universe of baseball. Apparently he wasn't rated any higher than number 3 by his original team. So what about now? I see Moncada's ceiling as being a player roughly the caliber of Ray Durham who was solid for many years IMO. He's got a ways to go to reach that level and I have no problem with being encouraged by his performance of late. I also welcome him to exceed my expectations but I think soxfanatlanta and Camilo, carry-on have made valid points. If that makes me or them meatballs then I guess so be it.
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  #17  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:28 PM
wxkid23 wxkid23 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
The heck with Juan Soto. What about Ronald Ocuna Jr? Moncada was supposed to be the Numero uno prospect in the entire universe of baseball. Apparently he wasn't rated any higher than number 3 by his original team. So what about now? I see Moncada's ceiling as being a player roughly the caliber of Ray Durham who was solid for many years IMO. He's got a ways to go to reach that level and I have no problem with being encouraged by his performance of late. I also welcome him to exceed my expectations but I think soxfanatlanta and Camilo, carry-on have made valid points. If that makes me or them meatballs then I guess so be it.
Agreed. I'm not a believer, but I hope I'm wrong. If he's going to show signs of being anything like he was projected, he will show next year imo.
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  #18  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:25 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
The heck with Juan Soto. What about Ronald Ocuna Jr?

That's 2. Again, exception not the rule.
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  #19  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:40 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I am encouraged by his play of late, but not overly encouraged. Dayan Viciedo, who's approach Moncada's reminds me of, also owned September baseball.


I'd love for Moncada's talent to combine with a new approach to turn it around. But I'm also not entirely sure he isn't that prospect that sticks for six years simply due to pedigree, sinking the team he's on and never being an average player.
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  #20  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:40 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
That's 2. Again, exception not the rule.
Agreed

Just looking at the MLB.com top prospect list of preseason 2016:

1 Corey Seager, SS, Dodgers - star, now injured
2 Byron Buxton, OF, Twins - bust watch
3 Lucas Giolito, RHP, Nationals - bust watch
4 Julio Urias, LHP, Dodgers - injured
5 J.P. Crawford, SS, Phillies - bust watch
6 Orlando Arcia, SS, Brewers - not good
7 Yoan Moncada, 2B, Red Sox
8 Dansby Swanson, SS, Braves - not good
9 Joey Gallo, 3B/OF, Rangers - not good
10 Tyler Glasnow, RHP, Pirates - looking better

2017:

1. Andrew Benintendi, OF, Red Sox - very good
2. Yoan Moncada, 2B, White Sox
3. Gleyber Torres, SS, Yankees - very good
4. Dansby Swanson, SS, Braves - not good
5. Amed Rosario, SS, Mets - improving
6. Alex Reyes, RHP, Cardinals - injured
7. J.P. Crawford, SS, Phillies - bust watch
8. Victor Robles, OF, Nationals - injured, now just starting out
9. Tyler Glasnow, RHP, Pirates - looking better
10. Austin Meadows, OF, Pirates - just got recalled

2018:

1. Shohei Ohtani, RHP/OF, Angels - injured pitching; showing star potential hitting
2. Ronald Acuna, OF, Braves - star
3. Vladimir Guerrero Jr., 3B, Blue Jays - minors
4. Eloy Jimenez, OF, White Sox - minors
5. Gleyber Torres, INF, Yankees - very good
6. Victor Robles, OF, Nationals - injured, now just starting out
7. Nick Senzel, 3B, Reds - injured
8. Fernando Tatis Jr., SS, Padres - minors
9. Forrest Whitley, RHP, Astros - minors
10. Michael Kopech, RHP, White Sox - injured
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  #21  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:15 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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I am the person who popularized "Bust Watch" with regards to Moncada, and I certainly think it's better that Moncada closed out the season strong instead of sucking in September.

I'm not optimistic, but the Sox need to give this kid at least one more year to try out this MLB thing. They have nothing to lose.
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  #22  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:40 PM
Camilo, carry-on Camilo, carry-on is offline
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This year Moncada leads all of MLB in strikeouts and has the most errors by a second baseball in all of MLB. He's also hitting a robust .232. When the Sale trade was made, Moncada was the #1 prospect in baseball.

I was expecting Abreu-like offensive numbers, .300+. 30+, 100+. I'm of the belief that if you're real good, a natural, you're good right away.

I don't think many White Sox fans would have believed that after 759 at bats Moncada would have struck out 284 times and have a cumulative .232 batting average. For the sake of the team, I hope he improves, but I don't see him putting up Abreu-like offensive numbers.
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:53 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
I'm of the belief that if you're real good, a natural, you're good right away.
I do not believe that this belief is supported by history.
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:11 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I do not believe that this belief is supported by history.
nor is it realistic to say "player X is supposed to be a great offensive 2b, so he needs to put up offensive numbers similar to one of the top 10 1b in baseball"

I am disappointed in Moncada, but how you can say its not good he is finishing strong is kind of laughable.
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:24 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Nice article in the Trib confirms my own eye test. Yoan is finishing the season strong.

His OPS over last 30 days is pushing .800 with a BA of .310 and only 30 K. If he had just posted a .650 OPS in May and June hed be right where he was last year or better.
That's an improvement, but he was acquired to be an .850-.950 OPS hitter.
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  #26  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:27 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I do not believe that this belief is supported by history.
First that jump out at me off the top of my head: Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax.
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  #27  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:00 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post

I was expecting Abreu-like offensive numbers, .300+. 30+, 100+. I'm of the belief that if you're real good, a natural, you're good right away.
You expected that from him this year?
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  #28  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:10 PM
Camilo, carry-on Camilo, carry-on is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
You expected that from him this year?
Not after last year. It was apparent to me last year that Moncada wasn't anything like his #1 prospect billing.
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  #29  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:11 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
nor is it realistic to say "player X is supposed to be a great offensive 2b, so he needs to put up offensive numbers similar to one of the top 10 1b in baseball"

I am disappointed in Moncada, but how you can say its not good he is finishing strong is kind of laughable.
No -it's accurate.
You trade 1 Chris Sale today for 2 Chris Sales tomorrow.
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  #30  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:12 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I do not believe that this belief is supported by history.
Robin Ventura, If there was a WSI when he broke in, some here would have shot him to save us from him.

Jose Altuve. If he was with the Sox and not Stros his first two years, some here would have called him The Complete Bust.
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