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  #46  
Old 08-04-2019, 01:44 PM
insp insp is offline
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OMG! A 22 YO player who has absolutely been lights out at all levels of the minors and has flashed greatness in the pros while struggling with injuries and fan expectations isn't blowing up the league. THE HORROR!
What greatness? He has a mediocre batting average, poor on-base number and is an awful fielder.

Frank Thomas, who really was a great player no matter what the hacks on sports talk radio said about him, was far better than Jimenez in everything but the fielding right from the get go and he never demanded the big bucks without proving himself worthy of the payday unlike Jimenez who has yet to prove himself worthy of anything better than the MLB minimum.
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  #47  
Old 08-04-2019, 01:52 PM
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What greatness? He has a mediocre batting average, poor on-base number and is an awful fielder.

Frank Thomas, who really was a great player no matter what the hacks on sports talk radio said about him, was far better than Jimenez in everything but the fielding right from the get go and he never demanded the big bucks without proving himself worthy of the payday unlike Jimenez who has yet to prove himself worthy of anything better than the MLB minimum.
Sure in his first full season - one marred by two trips to the DL to bust up his timing he's only got an OPS of ~.750. He did flash a .942 in June prior to going back on the DL again, so there's reason to hope.

He's also 22 and in his first full season. There is plenty of reason to think he's going to be just fine, but go ahead jump out ahead and condemn him. You can always backtrack later and never have to worry about admitting you were wrong.

Honestly...

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  #48  
Old 08-04-2019, 01:57 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is online now
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What greatness? He has a mediocre batting average, poor on-base number and is an awful fielder.

Frank Thomas, who really was a great player no matter what the hacks on sports talk radio said about him, was far better than Jimenez in everything but the fielding right from the get go and he never demanded the big bucks without proving himself worthy of the payday unlike Jimenez who has yet to prove himself worthy of anything better than the MLB minimum.
Well if he's not as good as a first-ballot Hall of Famer, he must be terrible.
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  #49  
Old 08-04-2019, 02:35 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Well if he's not as good as a first-ballot Hall of Famer, he must be terrible.
Jimenez came with more hype than Thomas. I understand why fans should expect a more Thomas-like start to his career. Fans might not be so disappointed if he were hyped as a future Dave Kingman.

Maybe it's not fair to compare to compare Jimenez to Thomas. But it misses the point to demean expectations fans have had since Jimenez was acquired. The so-far unfulfilled great expectations over the rebuild is sort of built around Jimenez being comparable to Thomas. It's disappointing to see other prospects come up on other teams and come closer to fulfilling their promise than white Sox prospects have, outside of the occasional flashes hear and there, especially when the White Sox said he was ready with the unprecedented contract extension.

I believe in Jimenez, but if he isn't hitting .300ish or better to go along with his home runs, he will be a disappointment, not because I'm comparing him to Frank Thomas, but because such offensive proficiency out of Jimenez is a lynch pin of the rebuild promise. With all that we've heard about Jimenez, we have every right to expect a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer.
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  #50  
Old 08-04-2019, 02:40 PM
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Jimenez came with more hype than Thomas. I understand why fans should expect a more Thomas-like start to his career. Fans might not be so disappointed if he were hyped as a future Dave Kingman.

Maybe it's not fair to compare to compare Jimenez to Thomas. But it misses the point to demean expectations fans have had since Jimenez was acquired. The so-far unfulfilled great expectations over the rebuild is sort of built around Jimenez being comparable to Thomas. It's disappointing to see other prospects come up on other teams and come closer to fulfilling their promise than white Sox prospects have, outside of the occasional flashes hear and there, especially when the White Sox said he was ready with the unprecedented contract extension.

I believe in Jimenez, but if he isn't hitting .300ish or better to go along with his home runs, he will be a disappointment, not because I'm comparing him to Frank Thomas, but because such offensive proficiency out of Jimenez is a lynch pin of the rebuild promise. With all that we've heard about Jimenez, we have every right to expect a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer.
There was no INTERNET in any serious way when Frank Thomas came up. Let alone Twitter or Instagram or Fantasy baseball. Of course Eloy has received more hype. Honestly most fans maybe knew one player in the minors for their team. Now you can google search every single player on every single minor league team and follow their every at bat live.

Oh and Eloy just crushed a huge 3-run bomb right before I typed this reply.
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  #51  
Old 08-04-2019, 02:47 PM
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I mean, I agree that it would be better if Eloy was hitting .300 with 30 HRs instead of .235 with 17 HRs in his rookie season. I also think it's far too early to conclude that Eloy is a mediocrity, and players with his kind of power don't need to hit .300 to be extremely valuable. Bryce Harper is a career .276 hitter who has only hit above .300 twice in his career.

It's unfortunate that the Sox were more or less bullied by the media into signing Eloy to an extension but Eloy only needs to fulfill part of his potential to make that $100 million worth it.
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  #52  
Old 08-04-2019, 02:55 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
There was no INTERNET in any serious way when Frank Thomas came up. Let alone Twitter or Instagram or Fantasy baseball. Of course Eloy has received more hype. Honestly most fans maybe knew one player in the minors for their team. Now you can google search every single player on every single minor league team and follow their every at bat live.

Oh and Eloy just crushed a huge 3-run bomb right before I typed this reply.
2 things Eloy needs to do, stay healthy and a crash course in how to play leftfield.
This year those 2 actually go hand in hand as he missed a lot of games because he was injured playing in the field, the last injury was plain stupidity.
I think he would have had a semi monster season if he avoided the injuries.
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  #53  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:00 PM
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I mean, I agree that it would be better if Eloy was hitting .300 with 30 HRs instead of .235 with 17 HRs in his rookie season. I also think it's far too early to conclude that Eloy is a mediocrity, and players with his kind of power don't need to hit .300 to be extremely valuable. Bryce Harper is a career .276 hitter who has only hit above .300 twice in his career.

It's unfortunate that the Sox were more or less bullied by the media into signing Eloy to an extension but Eloy only needs to fulfill part of his potential to make that $100 million worth it.
It's only $75M and only potentially that. Only $43M is guaranteed. I doubt the Sox were bullied, but it gave them a chance to do the right thing and get the extra years they wanted and not not risk pissing Eloy off as others have claimed is likely. All the team cared about was getting 7 years of control and getting him going as soon as possible. They got both.
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  #54  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:03 PM
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2 things Eloy needs to do, stay healthy and a crash course in how to play the leftfield.
This year those 2 actually go hand in hand has he missed a lot of games because he was injured playing in the field, the last injury was plain stupidity.
I think he would have had a semi monster season if he avoided the injuries.
Just in the last couple days he's had a few "contested" fly balls and has cleared the way for Leury both times and given more space than he did the time he bumped with Tilson. Of course that ball was much more contested and took a very nice play by Tilson to run it down.
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  #55  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:15 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
There was no INTERNET in any serious way when Frank Thomas came up. Let alone Twitter or Instagram or Fantasy baseball. Of course Eloy has received more hype. Honestly most fans maybe knew one player in the minors for their team. Now you can google search every single player on every single minor league team and follow their every at bat live.

Oh and Eloy just crushed a huge 3-run bomb right before I typed this reply.
Jimenez also is hitting less than .250. Maybe he'll go on a tear, but he has to do more than hit home runs to fulfill his expectations. His contract extension before he ever played a major league game was not an internet rumor, and why fans have their expectations is less not really an issue. His expectations are a foundation of the expectations for imminent success for the franchise. Those expectation are a lot closer to Frank Thomas than Dave Kingman. It's not about how far the ball goes when a hitter connects. (Does anyone remember the name of the Cubs player who hit an apartment across the street from Wrigley on the fly early in the last decade? It's about what they do when the ball doesn't leave the park. It's not about high home run totals. It's about high home run totals combined with comparable totals for doubles. It's about hitting line dives that two hop the wall without getting more than six
feet off the ground.

As I wrote, I believe in Jimenez. My disappointment in Jimenez, home run this afternoon not withstanding, is that he isn't fulfilling his promise that the White Sox have nurtured and promoted in a city that's not naturally enthusiastic about White Sox baseball. I hope he does. Frank Thomas isn't such as bad role model for a hitter, and the franchise could use another one.
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  #56  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:22 PM
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As I wrote, I believe in Jimenez. My disappointment in Jimenez, home run this afternoon not withstanding, is that he isn't fulfilling his promise that the White Sox have nurtured and promoted in a city that's not naturally enthusiastic about White Sox baseball. I hope he does. Frank Thomas isn't such as bad role model for a hitter, and the franchise could use another one.
He's less than 3 months of total playing time at the Major League level into his career. Maybe it's your expectations that need adjusting.

And just to be captain obvious here, EVERY team could use a Frank Thomas or two. Say Elloy turns into Abreu or Moncada instead. Does that mean he failed and isn't worth the money?
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  #57  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:50 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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(Does anyone remember the name of the Cubs player who hit an apartment across the street from Wrigley on the fly early in the last decade?
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  #58  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:51 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Say Elloy turns into Abreu or Moncada instead. Does that mean he failed and isn't worth the money?
Which version of Abreu?
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  #59  
Old 08-04-2019, 04:03 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
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Which version of Abreu?
We didn't sign Abreu until he was 27 and that is questionable to some. It's too bad we didn't get to see Jose in a Sox uniform in his early 20s.
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  #60  
Old 08-04-2019, 04:20 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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It's not about how far the ball goes when a hitter connects. (Does anyone remember the name of the Cubs player who hit an apartment across the street from Wrigley on the fly early in the last decade? It's about what they do when the ball doesn't leave the park. It's not about high home run totals. It's about high home run totals combined with comparable totals for doubles. It's about hitting line dives that two hop the wall without getting more than six feet off the ground.
It’s all about how far the ball goes when a hitter connects. It’s also all about not hitting those line drives at a ~10-degree angle that get converted into outs at a higher rate.

Hard-hit balls, in the air, to the pull side. That’s the goal. One-third of those leave the park, and the ones that don’t provide a lot more of those doubles you crave.

There are 54 players in MLB who have played at least 90 games and hit at least 20 home runs. 48 of those 54 have at least 15 doubles to go with the 20 home runs.
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