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  #46  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:28 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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I also don't really understand some of the angst from the small ball crowd. Not every hitter is being taught to strictly pull the ball. It's becoming more prevalent yes, but many players don't see shifts and they are the typical small ball players and they do still exist they just tend to hit lower in the lineup, but the game is trending toward bigger stronger players driving the baseball by pulling it and it's leading to more runs being scored.
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  #47  
Old 08-10-2018, 11:51 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile
I also don't really understand some of the angst from the small ball crowd. Not every hitter is being taught to strictly pull the ball. It's becoming more prevalent yes, but many players don't see shifts and they are the typical small ball players and they do still exist they just tend to hit lower in the lineup, but the game is trending toward bigger stronger players driving the baseball by pulling it and it's leading to more runs being scored.
Thank you.

Iíll do you one better. No one ever said that there isnít still a place in the game for low-power contact hitters. There are some high-power hitters who are so severely limited in all other facets of hitting that they are barely passable as everyday players. People who like OPS+ as a stat have determined that a point of OBP is more valuable than a point of slugging, and there are a decent number of low-power players who get on base at a decent enough clip to mitigate their lack of power. However, when OBP is close, a higher slugging percentage wins out over a higher batting average, even at the expense of more strikeouts.

Hitting a baseball safely is harder than it has been in several decades. Conversely, hitting a baseball out of a ballpark is easier than it has been in several decades. Not only is a high-contact, low-power hitterís approach failing more often overall, it is also not providing as much reward when it does succeed.

For those who are wondering if there is a tipping point where adding more and more high-power hitters will lead to diminishing returns, the answer is yes. However, that tipping point is not reached until you are running a lineup out there like the post-strike Indians with 30-homer hitters occupying four or five spots in the lineup. In other words, the White Sox donít need to worry about that at all.
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  #48  
Old 08-10-2018, 05:18 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I also don't really understand some of the angst from the small ball crowd.
The difference is you're misunderstanding position while Mohoney is purposely misrepresenting it.

I prefer balance that's it. Pitching, hitting, fielding, running and throwing.

Balance...
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  #49  
Old 08-10-2018, 05:27 PM
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The difference is you're misunderstanding position while Mohoney is purposely misrepresenting it.

I prefer balance that's it. Pitching, hitting, fielding, running and throwing.

Balance...
I understand that, but the simple fact is that the rest of the stuff isn't changing based on the changes to the offensive scheme. Those are separate parts of the game.

All of the main changes are in the idea that on offense you're better off trying to hit the ball hard and with lift by pulling it most of the time. You still want players who can field, run, pitch and throw. Those aspects of the game really haven't changed all that much though teams are stealing less bases than they used to.

Still your desire to see a balanced game might be at odds with the best strategy for scoring the most runs so the question for you is, "if the offensive strategy you don't like gives the Sox the best chance to score more runs, do you want them to do it or to satisfy your desire for what you consider aesthetically pleasing baseball?"
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  #50  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:05 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Still your desire to see a balanced game might be at odds with the best strategy for scoring the most runs so the question for you is, "if the offensive strategy you don't like gives the Sox the best chance to score more runs, do you want them to do it or to satisfy your desire for what you consider aesthetically pleasing baseball?"
According to these 2018 stats the cubs are in the middle of the pack in HR's, but lead the NL in runs scored. Could it be they have a more balanced offense?

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_...ting/league/nl
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  #51  
Old 08-10-2018, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
According to these 2018 stats the cubs are in the middle of the pack in HR's, but lead the NL in runs scored. Could it be they have a more balanced offense?

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_...ting/league/nl
The Cubs also lead the NL in BA, OBP and are 3rd in SLG and thus lead the league in OPS. They also lead the league in HBP and IBB.

Now let's look at all of baseball

NYY #1 HR #2 R
LAD #2 HR #7 R
CLE #3 HR #3 R
LAA #4 HR #11 R
BOS #5 HR #1 R
TOR #6 HR #17 R
OAK #7 HR #8 R
MIL #8 HR #15 R
HOU #9 HR #4 R
COL #10 HR #9 R


So 7 of the top 10 HR teams are in the top 10 in runs scored and one at 11 with only one team not in the top half of runs scored (TOR and they come in at 22nd in OBP) MIL is at 15th but is 19th in OBP.


Now lets do the NL... teams listed 1-10 for HR:

LAD #2 R
MIL #8 R
COL #3 R
STL #10 R
WAS #5 R
PHI #11 R
ATL #4 R
ARI #9 R
PIT #6 R
CHC #1 R

So of the top 10 teams for HR in the NL only one misses the top 10 for runs and it comes in at 11th.

FYI, Cincinatti - who comes in at 7th in NL Runs scored is 11th for HR.

So every single NL team in the top 11 for HR is in the top 11 for runs scored.

I know that's anecdotal, but I'd say the stats are screaming that HR matter for Run production and when it doesn't lead to a lot of runs the OBP is to blame...
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  #52  
Old 08-10-2018, 07:50 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Still your desire to see a balanced game might be at odds with the best strategy for scoring the most runs so the question for you is, "if the offensive strategy you don't like gives the Sox the best chance to score more runs, do you want them to do it or to satisfy your desire for what you consider aesthetically pleasing baseball?"

Aesthetically pleasing to the current "I want my content now" American consumer these days is the home run. Thus the smaller parks, expansion (watering down talent), lively baseballs, smaller strike zones, etc...
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  #53  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:17 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
The Cubs also lead the NL in BA, OBP and are 3rd in SLG and thus lead the league in OPS. They also lead the league in HBP and IBB.

Now let's look at all of baseball

NYY #1 HR #2 R
LAD #2 HR #7 R
CLE #3 HR #3 R
LAA #4 HR #11 R
BOS #5 HR #1 R
TOR #6 HR #17 R
OAK #7 HR #8 R
MIL #8 HR #15 R
HOU #9 HR #4 R
COL #10 HR #9 R


So 7 of the top 10 HR teams are in the top 10 in runs scored and one at 11 with only one team not in the top half of runs scored (TOR and they come in at 22nd in OBP) MIL is at 15th but is 19th in OBP.


Now lets do the NL... teams listed 1-10 for HR:

LAD #2 R
MIL #8 R
COL #3 R
STL #10 R
WAS #5 R
PHI #11 R
ATL #4 R
ARI #9 R
PIT #6 R
CHC #1 R

So of the top 10 teams for HR in the NL only one misses the top 10 for runs and it comes in at 11th.

FYI, Cincinatti - who comes in at 7th in NL Runs scored is 11th for HR.

So every single NL team in the top 11 for HR is in the top 11 for runs scored.

I know that's anecdotal, but I'd say the stats are screaming that HR matter for Run production and when it doesn't lead to a lot of runs the OBP is to blame...
Because all these teams are adopting the same policy, long ball.
The Dodgers have hit 40 more HR's than the cubs , that's 40 and yet trail the cubs in runs scored who are using a more balanced approach than the rest of mlb
All I've read here is that all FO's are adopting this long ball concept.
Apprently this year the cubs have found out a balanced approach works.

Last edited by Paulwny; 08-10-2018 at 08:26 PM.
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  #54  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:49 PM
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Bryant has missed 38 games, Schwarber has missed 13 games, and Rizzo has missed 10 games. That is some significant missing power.
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  #55  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:56 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Bryant has missed 38 games, Schwarber has missed 13 games, and Rizzo has missed 10 games. That is some significant missing power.
Yes, but they still lead the nl in runs scored with a balanced offense.
They don't rely on the long ball.
Today Schwarber attempted a bunt with 2 strikes trying to break up a no hitter and start a rally.

Last edited by voodoochile; 08-10-2018 at 10:34 PM.
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  #56  
Old 08-10-2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Aesthetically pleasing to the current "I want my content now" American consumer these days is the home run. Thus the smaller parks, expansion (watering down talent), lively baseballs, smaller strike zones, etc...
Given all those factors sounds like the power game is the right choice.
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  #57  
Old 08-10-2018, 10:34 PM
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Because all these teams are adopting the same policy, long ball.
The Dodgers have hit 40 more HR's than the cubs , that's 40 and yet trail the cubs in runs scored who are using a more balanced approach than the rest of mlb
All I've read here is that all FO's are adopting this long ball concept.
Apprently this year the cubs have found out a balanced approach works.
Cubs are third in the NL in SLG. It's not like they aren't hitting plenty of balls really really hard.
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  #58  
Old 08-11-2018, 04:24 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Given all those factors sounds like the power game is the right choice.

The power game may be the way to grab America's shorter attention span consumer. We see this trend in all avenues of our culture: news, movies, advertisement, interpersonal communication. That does not mean that the false dilemmas presented by some on this board are correct.

Last edited by Grzegorz; 08-11-2018 at 04:50 AM.
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  #59  
Old 08-11-2018, 08:04 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
The power game may be the way to grab America's shorter attention span consumer. We see this trend in all avenues of our culture: news, movies, advertisement, interpersonal communication. That does not mean that the false dilemmas presented by some on this board are correct.
Well, some of us can gripe about the myriad problems facing humanity, and the rest of us can enjoy a game even when it changes in a way we don't particularly find appealing.
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  #60  
Old 08-11-2018, 09:04 AM
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The power game may be the way to grab America's shorter attention span consumer. We see this trend in all avenues of our culture: news, movies, advertisement, interpersonal communication. That does not mean that the false dilemmas presented by some on this board are correct.
Maybe it's just got more to do with scoring more runs?
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