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  #46  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:09 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by hoosiersoxfan View Post
So you don't care for some of the team's best players because they don't speak English?

Didn't Minnie Minoso's poor English skills kept him from becoming popular with White Sox fans in the '50s and '60s?
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  #47  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:35 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Will he be enough of an upgrade at 2B to justify a #4 overall draft pick? I have my doubts.
What level of production do you think the #4 pick should produce to justify the selection?
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  #48  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:41 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by hoosiersoxfan View Post
So you don't care for some of the team's best players because they don't speak English?
From a marketing point of view it is baffling to me why the White Sox have so many players that have not progressed with their English over the past few years. Perhaps behind the scenes they are actually much improved, but it would be nice to see Jose Abreu pull off an interview as well as Eloy does.
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  #49  
Old 01-23-2020, 02:07 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
From a marketing point of view it is baffling to me why the White Sox have so many players that have not progressed with their English over the past few years. Perhaps behind the scenes they are actually much improved, but it would be nice to see Jose Abreu pull off an interview as well as Eloy does.

Teams do more to accommodate non-English players than they used to, for one thing. The more Spanish-speakers you have on a team, the less Spanish-speakers need to learn English. The more teams employ translators, the less need to speak English. Also, many native Spanish-speaking ballplayers, and I understand Abreu is one such, have some English-language skills but choose to communicate in their native language with the media and in public because they are more comfortable with it. Teams provide translators, and there are always examples of ballplayers getting into trouble in the media for something they said. Speaking through the buffer of a translator can be better in dealing with media that can turn hostile.

In the early 1980s, the Padres were requiring their Spanish-speaking prospects to learn English. I don't know how much of that goes on any more, but I knew the ESL tutor the Padres employed in Spring Training in Yuma, and he was Ozzie Guillen's first English teacher. While it's true that Guillen wouldn't have become a manager if he had never learned at least enough English to get himself into trouble, it's also true that he would have gotten into less trouble if he had never learned English.
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  #50  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:06 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Didn't Minnie Minoso's poor English skills kept him from becoming popular with White Sox fans in the '50s and '60s?

Minnie spoke english, maybe not well but enough to communicate with the fans and media.
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  #51  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:27 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Minnie spoke english, maybe not well but enough to communicate with the fans and media.
It was also a different time. Not everything said and done was tweeted out 30 seconds later and reporters were more forgiving about publishing mistakes and protective of the players.

I can understand why players today are concerned about making a language mistake and then seeing it blown up into a major scandal. I don't know if Abreu (for example) communicates directly with fans for simple things in English, but don't begrudge him the use of an interpreter for interviews to be sure he communicates the ideas he wants and doesn't end up as front page news.

I'd also like to ask this be the end of the Likeability hijack. I realize I am part of the problem, but if you really have to continue this discussion please do it in a new thread.
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  #52  
Old 01-23-2020, 08:14 AM
JohnTucker0814 JohnTucker0814 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
This is the one guy that I am really hoping for. I need someone on this team to like.
What??? You can't find ANYONE on this current roster "to like"?

Eloy has the personality that everyone should like... and he's one of the best young power hitters in the game

Moncada is one of the most exciting all around young players in the game, has a family, by all accounts is a really good guy

Abrue - see Moncada above about being a great person

Anderson - probably one of the most under rated people on this team. The amount of things him and his wife do outside of baseball is amazing. He loves the White Sox and plays his heart out for the team...

These are just 4 examples and I think there are quite a bit more. There aren't any David Wells type of guys on this roster. There usually is that one guy (Dylan Covey) where I just want them to be gone... I can't think of anyone on this roster that makes me feel this way.

I don't get why you can't find someone to like?
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  #53  
Old 01-23-2020, 08:17 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
What level of production do you think the #4 pick should produce to justify the selection?
Somewhere around 15 WAR for the duration of his initial team control would be nice. Maybe a 2ish WAR for the pre-arb years and a 3ish WAR for the arb years.
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  #54  
Old 01-23-2020, 08:46 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is online now
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Somewhere around 15 WAR for the duration of his initial team control would be nice. Maybe a 2ish WAR for the pre-arb years and a 3ish WAR for the arb years.
Who do you think they should have drafted instead?
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  #55  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:04 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Of course, but it does not work out that way more often than not. Historically, no baseball GM has hit on their #4 (or higher) picks more often than they have missed. And by hit, I mean become an MLB regular. It is the nature of the sport. So again, by your implied measure, all baseball GMs have been chumps.

If you get an MLB regular with your #4 pick, then you are ahead of the game with that particular pick.

....and who ever said that the Sox didn't believe Madrigal was destined to be better than players drafted after him? It's best to let this nonsense drop because soon we'll have a thread titled "Madrigal Positive Press" filled with 10 pages of one guy arguing that he was a terrible pick.
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  #56  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:06 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Maybe just let Madrigal play and put away the old scorebook for a bit. He's extremely gifted, scouts love him, most analysts seem to be boosting him up even more, and coaches love him.

^^This.
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  #57  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:19 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnTucker0814 View Post
What??? You can't find ANYONE on this current roster "to like"?

Eloy has the personality that everyone should like... and he's one of the best young power hitters in the game

Moncada is one of the most exciting all around young players in the game, has a family, by all accounts is a really good guy

Abrue - see Moncada above about being a great person

Anderson - probably one of the most under rated people on this team. The amount of things him and his wife do outside of baseball is amazing. He loves the White Sox and plays his heart out for the team...

These are just 4 examples and I think there are quite a bit more. There aren't any David Wells type of guys on this roster. There usually is that one guy (Dylan Covey) where I just want them to be gone... I can't think of anyone on this roster that makes me feel this way.

I don't get why you can't find someone to like?

All I ever hear is that baseball is losing popularity because it's boring, isn't fun, and lacks personality. More locally, for years, I have also heard that the Sox were full of faceless players while the Cubs were full of household names. Now we have Eloy and Anderson injecting a ton of fun and enthusiasm into the game to go along with their talent and fans can't stand it. To each their own, but MLB shouldn't be marketed to the biggest curmudgeon fans out there.


I think Anderson did a great job last year of walking a fine line between celebrating and showing enthusiasm vs. showboating and taunting. He's drawn the ire of some of MLB's fun police players, but he's always had a good reply to them without coming off as an *******.
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  #58  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:59 AM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Yeah the Madrigal fan base is a weird mix of younger stats guys fascinated by his low strikeout rate and older guys who view him as the reincarnation of Nellie Fox.
I am likely in between these two groups in age (44), but even with the potential of Robert, Eloy etc. I am so very excited to see this kid play everyday. For me, I think it is not so much Nellie Fox (he was dead before I was born), but a return to the baseball I grew up with in the 80s. And maybe a bit that he is more of the "Everyman" player because he is not a 6'4" 230lbs beast but can still hold his own. Doing the little things, taking pride in contact, defense, speed, etc. There were plenty of guys that used to do those things and they don't seem to be too important anymore (enter stat dudes here to prove they don't matter).

Overall, even if Madrigal doesn't become a huge star, if he does those things consistently, I think a lot of people will love him and he will be a cornerstone on the Sox for years.
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  #59  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:28 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
....and who ever said that the Sox didn't believe Madrigal was destined to be better than players drafted after him? It's best to let this nonsense drop because soon we'll have a thread titled "Madrigal Positive Press" filled with 10 pages of one guy arguing that he was a terrible pick.
Good suggestion.
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  #60  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:50 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Now we have Eloy and Anderson injecting a ton of fun and enthusiasm into the game to go along with their talent and fans can't stand it. To each their own, but MLB shouldn't be marketed to the biggest curmudgeon fans out there.

I think Anderson did a great job last year of walking a fine line between celebrating and showing enthusiasm vs. showboating and taunting. He's drawn the ire of some of MLB's fun police players, but he's always had a good reply to them without coming off as an *******.
Keep in mind that much of this fun police stuff is thinly veiled. It's why you see a lot of the same people calling AJ Pierzynski "passionate" but then get all riled up when Tim Anderson shows passion as well.

And the Sheriff of the baseball fun police, Mr. Brian "Play the game the Right Way" McCann, was exposed as a huge cheater.

It's a conversation we should openly have when someone goes off the rails and spouts nonsense about players.
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